(no subject)

[quigonejinn]

Freedom Hangs Like Heaven.

Iron Man set to Iron and Wine.
20MB, XviD or play in VLC

I'm going to end up recutting this when the DVD comes up because right now, there's this CERTAIN SCENE where SOME FUCKING DOUCHEBAG decides to HANG HIS FUCKING HAND off the side of the CAMERA and then some other asshole walks across andf;lkjgdf. I couldn't figure out a way to cut around it, so that scene sucks. And there's one bit where Rhodey is a talking head, but I figured that I've wasted a week of my life already on this.

So yes. Iron Man and Iron and Wine with Calexico production. And just ignore the fact that they use the wrong reign/reins on that Forbes cover. XD

Comments

[gabby-silang.livejournal.com]

HOLY. Okay, several things.

1) Your incredible patience with making a vid (aka looking for hours upon hours at all that footage) from a CAM is just astounding. And I adore you for it. Because, weirdly, it kinda adds something to the feeling of the whole thing.

2) SONG CHOICE. So I've been listening to that one Wilco song that's all "you know I would die if I could come back new", and thinking about Tony (which I do anyway, but thinking about him ESPECIALLY during that song), but this is SUCH A BETTER IDEA. I love that line about newborns walking on water and wandering home, with Tony stumbling through the desert and his whole return. And, damn, how pretty everything looks to folky guitar music with robots flying all over the place.

3) EVERYTHING ELSE. For real, it's late, but I will probably watch this again a few times tomorrow and be back to rave some more. I love how much you've used those magazine photos, and the strategic coming back to the shot of Obidiah and Stark Sr., and, gah, it gives me chills, that picture next to Iron Monger doing his big nasty thing, and Tony, Tony, Tony and his sweet, young face, never realizing until the very end, frozen without a heart in his own home, helpless, that he was never in control at all, for all his playboy bravado.

Yay, this was so awesome.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Oh man. That cover of Forbes with Tony looking so desperately, desperately young and trying to be cool and tough while Obediah stands in the background, looking like the tough bulldog who'll fuck you up if you mess with the puppy? It breaks my heart. I mean, look at the way Tony stands with his shoulders back and the gray collar when you know that's not what he usually was like at 21, and it hints, so much, at the role Obediah had in his life. Tony tries so hard in his emotionally retarded way, and I mean, how fucked up is it that they tell his life's story with cover articles, photo shoots, and the front page of a newspaper?

There's all kinds of fic in it. There's all kinds of fic all over this movie. Tony thinks he can fix things alone, but he can't! He needs Yinsen and Pepper and Rhodey!

And yeah, in all truth, the cam version really helped with the pretty. I spent a lot of time cursing dudes who sat up or moved around, and some of the darker scenes are pretty much a loss, but MAN, it makes the desert look fuzzy and pretty. Obsession! Your name is Rhod!

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

HI TOTALLY HIJACKING THE THREAD.

I mean, look at the way Tony stands with his shoulders back and the gray collar when you know that's not what he usually was like at 21, and it hints, so much, at the role Obediah had in his life.

I dragged the parents to the movie AGAIN last night, and god those pictures just about killed me the second time around (first time round I was too busy swooning.) I know it's probably because of the comics that Tony has the bitchin' 'stache, but in the movie, it's really not all that hard to make the leap that he grew it in part because he looked up to Obie, what with him being the only father figure in the later part of his developing years. That and probably as a way to prove that he's actually an adult. Being the youngest kid in your graduating class has got to be bitch, and I'm guessing a LOT of Tony's uber-macho affectations are a direct manifestation of that, of trying to prove that he has every right to be there, not just because he's a freak child genius.

That, and man, growing up with that much attention on you, with that much expectation, does not a healthy, well adjusted super-billionaire genius make.

second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

HOLY SHIT. HOLY SHIT. I DIDN'T THINK OF THAT.

Can't you just hear the conversation? Post two-years-in-the-St. Moritz-desert, for that stupid cover shoot, Tony shows up with the 'Stache. Obediah passes out laughing. Tony makes a crack about how shaving his head is where he draws the line, and they have a great bonding moment. EXCEPT OBEDIAH IS SECRETLY PLOTTING TO KILL TONY TWENTY YEARS DOWN THE LINE and Tony thinks about that conversation every. fucking. morning. when he looks in the mirror.

I mean, talk about betrayal and loss. Your parents die on the same day, and Father Figure #1 dies in a cave in Afghanistan to buy you time to get back to Father Figure #2, who rips your heart out of your chest. I'd start my mornings gargling with twenty-year old Scotch (and twenty year olds), too.

And yeah. I was thinking about the press glare thing last night: I seriously have to question the parenting skills of Daddy Stark. He has his boy on the cover of Popular Mechanics when Tony when he's six. Good thing he was an honest-to-God once in a century genius, Dad, and not just a really precocious kid with a mechanical bent.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

A) I LOVE THAT WE ARE SERIOUSLY DISCUSSING THE METAPHORICAL IMPLICATIONS OF TONY'S 'STACHE. It makes my heart genuinely sing with joy.

In other news, this:

Good thing he was an honest-to-God once in a century genius, Dad, and not just a really precocious kid with a mechanical bent.

Made me lol so damn hard, because it's so true. The only reason he gets away with half the shit he does is because for all of his personal failings, he ultimately delivers, and I'm guessing that's got to sting just a little bit. Is Rhodey still his friend because the US needs his brain, or because Rhodey genuinely sees behind the bluster? Does Pepper really care for him, or is it just misguided affection based on unavoidable close proximity over long periods of time due to the fact that, oh, he's her boss? I guess that's why he builds his robots -- he knows exactly what makes them tick because he programmed them himself, no second guessing, no doubt, and that's gotta be attractive when the only other stable parental figure in your life tried to kill you.

Tony thinks about that conversation every. fucking. morning. when he looks in the mirror.

God, you need to write that. Everyone needs to write that. That just needs to get fucking done. I will never, ever get enough of Tony re-contextualizing his past, realizing that everything he knew was probably wrong at one basic level. For a dude that was basically bred to be a scientist of one sort or another, that's basically discovering that gravity doesn't actually exist, and everything you've built on that belief just cruuuuuuumbles.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

that's basically discovering that gravity doesn't actually exist, and everything you've built on that belief just cruuuuuuumbles.

Jesus, yes. As much as I love the fluffy banter and UST, this is what really, really, really me excited about Iron Man fic. Tony is fucking smart and fucking complicated. And his world has just gone to pieces. Last night, I started a list of the Iron Man movieverse issues I want addressed in fic, and I hit the mid-thirties just going off the top of my head.

Is Rhodey still his friend because the US needs his brain, or because Rhodey genuinely sees behind the bluster?

See, this is what has got to sting so fucking bad when Rhodey backs away from Tony during that scene. I mean, Tony looks like he's been told his nuts are going to explode at the count of ten. And Rhodey is his friend. Rhodey found him in the desert. Rhodey has known him since he was a skinny bitch trying to get inside the lab coat of, like, the one girl on the MIT campus. Rhodey is his engineering buddy who loves machines just like Tony and provides the emotional legitimization for what he does. It's OK. His work protects the Rhodeys of the world.

AND THEN RHODEY DOESN'T WANT ANYTHING MORE TO DO WITH HIM. EVEN THOUGH TONY IS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING NOW.

I mean, I understand they had to put that in the movie because otherwise, we couldn't get that totally awesome dogfight, but man. And then Tony realizes that sexxin' Pepper is a bad idea and that his relationship with her is deeply fucked. And then Christine Everheart drops a nuclear bomb on him, and then, Obediah stabs him in the heart and the back and leaves him to bleed out on the red carpet.

I want fic about Obediah identifying the Starks' bodies while nineteen year old Tony waits in the hallway outside. And Tony being haunted by the metal wreck that the car would have looked like after the crash. And paralleling that to what the Mark III has got to look like after his fight with Iron Monger.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

And Tony being haunted by the metal wreck that the car would have looked like after the crash.

Oh my god. Dude, this TOTALLY explains why he'll never finish the hotrod he's working on - he wants to make the perfect car for his parents, one that can't crash or be destroyed, and the only solution he's finding is by not finishing it. If it's not finished, it can't get driven, and it can't get destroyed and then his parents won't die and he'll be HAPPY again. Except he can't. Because the world doesn't always work in the ways Tony wants it to, even though practically everything else does.

Also, first off, LOL:

I mean, Tony looks like he's been told his nuts are going to explode at the count of ten.

Secondly, holy cow I KNOW. You can see him bite back a petulant "WHY NOT?" because Rhodey is supposed to be his friend, and he wants to share this thing, this idea that you just KNOW he's been working on in some form or another since his parents died (because if you're made of metal, maybe you won't die in car accidents - oh Tones, so subtle.) In my personal backcanon Tony and Rhodey had sketched out ideas for the Iron Man suit after Rhodey introduced him to weed and beer freshman year, and the 3 months in the cave was like a forced vacation for Tony to actually get to work on that dream project. When Rhodey wants nothing to do with the project, Tony reads it as basically wanting nothing to do with him, and god, you totally saw how hard that hit. RDJ, you make me ache.

AND THEN RHODEY DOESN'T WANT ANYTHING MORE TO DO WITH HIM. EVEN THOUGH TONY IS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING NOW.

But dude, I TOTALLY understand Rhodey. Because dealing with Tony growing a conscience has got to be the most frustrating thing in the WORLD. This is totally not a self pimp, but I kind of sort of see his point. Tony finally learns that there are consequences to his actions and he's treating the revelation like he bought a new toy to play with. While Pre-Afghanistan!Tony was probably frustrating in his own right, at least Rhodey knew what to expect, and maybe understood that sometimes Tony just didn't know better. But now Tony comes back, claims he finally understands that there are consequences to his actions, but then decides that only he's the sole arbiter on truth, justice and the American Way? After only having a conscience, for what, like three weeks?

I'd deck him so hard, PTSD or not.

PS: I want fic about Obediah identifying the Starks' bodies while nineteen year old Tony waits in the hallway outside.

ME TOO. THIS IS NOT HEALTHY.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

ME TOO. THIS IS NOT HEALTHY.

FUCK THAT. VERY LITTLE ABOUT TONY STARK IS HEALTHY, OK?

Least of all how he's gotta be asking when Obediah decided to kill him. And whether Obediah had anything to do with that car crash. Talk about ripping scabs off. Tony might be getting close to forty years (I know, I know, RDJ is over forty, and I don't know if your OCD has ascended to my levels, but if you squint really hard, the date on the death newspaper is December 1990. Which puts T's birthday in 1971.), but I seriously doubt he's ever processed it.

Tony finally learns that there are consequences to his actions and he's treating the revelation like he bought a new toy to play with.

Is the link to War Stories? I'm at work right now, so I can't look at fic, generally: YES. From Rhodey's POV, it's got to be like Tony has picked up on this new, highly annoying thing as his Playboy Playmate 2008. He shows up last to the party, drinks champagne all night, and only then starts bitching about the centerpieces?

Plus, I can see where Tony's I WILL NOT MAKE WEAPONS ANYMORE looking like a personal rejection of the military. And from the Stripper Pole interlude on the plane, we know that Rhodey really, really loves and talks about it like it's his girlfriend and his family and his cultural history, all in one.

So in short: yeah, I understand why Rhodey is pissed at Tony. At the same time, oh God, if Tony Stark hit me with that look and asked me to kill some puppies, there would be dead animals on the hangar floor in short order. Repeated exposure must bring resistance or something.

Also. While we're on the Tony Stark squee, I'd like to note that when Tony is walking of fthe plane with his arm in a sling and Rhodey helping him and looking so tired and pale, and RDJ does that subtle thing with his features and then lifts his chin, it just kills me. It kills me dead. You know that's when Pepper starts to tear up, hard.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha, WORK. I KNOW THE FEELING. Or I would, if I was actually doing any. I'm pretending this is my lunch break, and then I'm leaving, like, at eight to make up for all the time I've spent wanking on the internets about Tony Stark's crazy hot emo eye-twitching. (IT'S WORTH IT)

And from the Stripper Pole interlude on the plane, we know that Rhodey really, really loves and talks about it like it's his girlfriend and his family and his cultural history, all in one.

YES. That's one of my favorite parts about Rhodey - he feels as strongly about the military as Tony does about making things explode. Tony doesn't yet realize people are capable of feeling just as strongly about a stance completely opposite to his, and being equally right, because his entire world and the people in it, for as long as he can remember, literally revolved around him: Obie watched over him, Rhodey looks out for him, and Pepper works for him. He doesn't yet know how to live in a world where that isn't always the case and boy is it fun to see him struggle.

RDJ does that subtle thing with his features and then lifts his chin, it just kills me. It kills me dead.

That was pretty much how I spent my second re-watch, and I think we should turn it into a drinking game: every time subtle acting gets all up in my superhero movie's business, I'll take a shot, because yes. I pretty much go on ad nauseum at work, but I really think that's what sets Iron Man apart from most other superhero movies aside from X-Men, the characters feel like they have actual interiority. When Rhodey finds Tony in the desert, and he brings his hand up, but then lets it drop out of frustration, out of helplessness, out of joy, your heart breaks. Or when Pepper and Tony are on the dance floor, and there's a brief moment where their eyes just sort of fix on each other, like they're trying to read the truth there because they can only seem to talk around everything they really want to say, and it's gorgeous and subtle and sweet and it's like DAMN. Real actors chosen not because they can fill a suit or pad out spandex nicely, but because they can actually emote, and fill the silence with as much meaning as dialogue and explosions! Who'da thunk it?

Iron Man is a good film that just so happens to be about superheroes, and not the other way around for once, it feels good, man.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[gabby-silang.livejournal.com]

UMMMM HI YOU GUYS THIS WAS TOTALLY MY REPLY THREAD. When I last looked last night. SHEEZ.

Um, anyway, I demand that every fic y'all have explicitly described or hinted at be written, and now. And add to it a moment about when Tony's doing his coming off the plane thing and the doors open and for a moment Pepper just sees him sitting there in the wheelchair, a freaking wheelchair, and she isn't sure she can handle it, but then, by God, he gets up and tuts his chin and he's going to be okay. He's going to be different.

And then all the Obi stuff.

Least of all how he's gotta be asking when Obediah decided to kill him. And whether Obediah had anything to do with that car crash.

I think I had, like, one line in Posthuman with Tony wondering if his father could have been involved in Obidiah's under the table deals, and that whole history freaking FASCINATES me. Partially because he'll never know, and therefore we get to play around with every possibility ever. Maybe Tony was groomed from the start to be the dimwitted face of Stark Industries, the guy who could say, with a straight face, USA USA USA, and keep the spotlight so that the real business could continue. Or maybe Obidiah cut the break line. Maybe Tony helped build the car they were driving in.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

UMMMM HI YOU GUYS THIS WAS TOTALLY MY REPLY THREAD. When I last looked last night. SHEEZ.

JOIN US. IT'S NICE AND TOASTY/ANGSTY UP IN HERE.

Maybe Tony helped build the car they were driving in.

Um. YES. I have shite memory, do you remember what they said in the beginning of the film? At what ages Tony built his first circuit, engine, etc.? Or am I misremembering? I had an aborted "Pepper Quits" (I have a whole FILE. It's labeled "Tony Is An Ass" and it makes me warm every time I see it in my google docs) snippit where Drunk!Tony throws his accomplishments in Pepper's face when she dares point out that maybe one man with a shiny suit can't solve the entire mid-east crisis alone, and he just ends up being petty and as human as Pepper just pointed out he was. I love Petulant!Tony, what can I say.

Maybe Tony was groomed from the start to be the dimwitted face of Stark Industries, the guy who could say, with a straight face, USA USA USA, and keep the spotlight so that the real business could continue.

Duuuuude, I didn't even think of that, that Obie agreed to Tony being the head because he thought he was easily manipulated and a little stupid--

(sidenote: typing with one hand, having deep thoughts, and eating carrots with a fork = Massive. Fail. Ewwww slimy veggies all over the keyboard.)

--and like quigonejinn pointed out, Tony ends up being the real deal, screwing up the plan, and forcing Obie's hand.

I love that idea that Tony will never truly know, that the threat that one possibility is that Obie didn't kill his parents, but just by being around Tony long enough makes people come to hate him enough to want to/try to kill him. It's gotta be a TERRIFYING thought for Tones, and would echo into how he approaches his relationships with Rhodey and Pepper and EVERYONE EVER. Except for Jarvis, he knows exactly what makes Jarvis tick, because Tony coded him himself.

God. My brain. Is broken. You people are making me think. During a work day. Have you no SHAME?

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure it's first circuit board at four, first engine at six, I think. A shot of him with Bill Gates accompanies the circuit board, and the shot of Tony with Daddy on the motorcycle for the engine.

BEHOLD, THE POWER OF OBSESSIVE VIDDING. But yeah, whatever time scale you use, Tony has got to be competent of working on a car by the time he's nineteen.

There are angst shoals for either answer to whether he worked on the car or not, really.

Also, aldkjf how did I miss that in your fic, gabby_silang? Oh man. I can totally see it making Tony sit bolt upright in the middle of the night.

And on top of that, the idea of Dad basically thinking that Tony was just going to be useless fluff breaks my heart on a level I can't even articulate. I mean, it's pretty clear that Tony idolizes Dad on a level that he can't even articulate -- what's that thing he says? I never got to ask Dad about it. As if Dad has the definitive answer to one of the most significant questions of modern ethics.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[gabby-silang.livejournal.com]

Drunk!Tony throws his accomplishments in Pepper's face when she dares point out that maybe one man with a shiny suit can't solve the entire mid-east crisis alone

OH MY EFFING GOD. I can see this so vividly. And he ends up SPITTING and then he's printing off his own Wikipedia page and leaving it on her desk, and goes from, like the Apogee to how many jager bombs he can do in five minutes and how long he can go without sleep because to him that actually DOES mean that he should be able to save the world. Why not? There hasn't been something he couldn't do before.

Okay, taking that into account, I cannot see how movieverse Tony is not dead within at least three years after Iron Man.

Tony ends up being the real deal, screwing up the plan, and forcing Obie's hand.

And isn't it so telling how Obi (I spell it like the Kenobi, yes) totally didn't see that coming? I love his manner in the scene just after Tony's returning press conference, and arm slung over his shoulder, talking to him like a kid, and you can see Tony take on that role of the kid who'll let himself be herded, just stepping into that easily, letting Obi take care of things even though he feel so strongly about this one thing, still Obi's got that pull over him.


but just by being around Tony long enough makes people come to hate him enough to want to/try to kill him

I don't think we (WE THE INNER IM FANDOM CABAL) have even begun to touch on how unimaginably furious he must be, deep, steaming down there. A teenage kind of anger when you realize the world isn't the way you thought it was, that you can't have everything, that you have to get a job, that your parents aren't rich, that they're flawed and sometimes awful, that you yourself can and have hurt people, that other people hurt you for no good reason and the universe doesn't care. Everything was a lie and he's got to be so, so, deep down pissed.

And now he has a big metal suit with rockets on it.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

and you can see Tony take on that role of the kid who'll let himself be herded, just stepping into that easily, letting Obi take care of things even though he feel so strongly about this one thing, still Obi's got that pull over him.

GOD SO TRUE. He just looks like a beaten down puppy, with his lame arm and all the scratches, and GOD. It must feel nice having someone take care of you after those 3 months, because like quigonejinn pointed out, Obi (now you have me doing it too, dammit) is as close to a father as he's going to get and after being unable to save Yinsin, having someone take care of this one thing has to be nice, having that chance to rest, even for a moment. Because Tony thinks he can only get just moments, because Tony thinks he's too smart (but in reality, just too stubborn) to let his guard down, because he fully believes no one can really think on his level, no one can see the whole picture, despite time and time again Tony gets into the scrapes he does because he can't do exactly that.

I want Movieverse!Tony to meet Mr. Fantastic, if only so he can see his sort of behavior from the outside. Also, because I can see Tony throwing a complete snitfit after a meeting with Mr. Fantastic at SHIELD, and Pepper looking up from her blackberry and smirking so fucking hard that Tony warns her that her face might freeze that way.

sidenote: I was just thinking about this the other day, how there are very little women super-geniuses in the Marvel U. DC has Oracle, Dr. Light (the girl one, not super-fin rapist dude) but Marvel U has...I can't think of any other than Sue Storm for a brief moment in the Ultimates universe (under Ellis, Millar came on and Sue Storm turned to porn face instead of science.) That kinda depresses me, yo.

A teenage kind of anger when you realize the world isn't the way you thought it was, that you can't have everything, that you have to get a job, that your parents aren't rich, that they're flawed and sometimes awful, that you yourself can and have hurt people, that other people hurt you for no good reason and the universe doesn't care. Everything was a lie and he's got to be so, so, deep down pissed.

And now he has a big metal suit with rockets on it.

I'm pretty much in love with that whole paragraph, just so you know, because YES. YES. Because if Tony was a 13 year old girl, he'd hang outside of the mall's Hot Topic and write deep poetry about how no one understands his pain, and he wears black so people will know the color of his sooooul.

But seriously, after Gulmira, and during the Iron Monger fight on the freeway, the potential for collateral damage was so crazy high, I couldn't wrap my brain around Rhodey letting Tony continue as Iron Man. It's not just that he's not formally trained, it's that he's not wired to actually see people as people. For god's sake, he has his suit differentiate between enemies and civilians. It's terrifying the thought of that kind of guy with that sort of weaponry trying to prove to the world that he's good by blowing shit up.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[besyd.livejournal.com]

Okay, I just couldn't keep quiet. (I'm feeling like I've just found my people!) You don't know me, and you may not even want to friend me back (because seriously, if ya'll can have this kind of freaking awesome discourse about IM, you all must be on my flist), but I just have to dip in and speak because I ... I can't stop myself.

Maybe Tony was groomed from the start to be the dimwitted face of Stark Industries

Oh, I think definitely this. I think Obediah quickly, deftly, and purposefully stepped into Dad's shoes. Of course he provided love and comfort to the grieving son ... but he also started providing everything needed to induce/feed any and all addictive tendencies in an emotionally-damaged, immature young man (booze, sex, gambling, you-name-it). Because what better way to control Tony? What better way to prevent him from ever actually maturing ... keeping him the "boy genius" who was satisfied with playing with his "toys": the engineering feats that made SI shareholders rich and the addictions that kept him in line.

And it worked. Until Afghanistan. Until Tony, in his mid-30's, did in 3 months what should have happened at a younger age over a longer period of time ... he "matured". He came back a changed man (though still and even more so messed up) ... to an unchanged world. He unwittingly fell into old habits (the whole sinking gratefully into Obie's care and embrace before the press conference) but expecting something different, something that fit his new "reality".

The first real kick was Rhodey's rejection in the hangar. Totally blind-sided Tony. Like a kid who's best friend had been happily playing with him one minute and then slapped him, made fun of him, and kicked him out of the treehouse the next. Serious ow.

And then he actually "saw" Pepper for the first time. Fell into his old habits of stalk-and-acquire. But his old habits didn't sit right with his new self, though he didn't consciously realize it. I loved the scene on the balcony where Pepper succumbs to his unholy magnetism and leans in for the kiss, but he's the one who stands there like a deer in the headlights, not jumping on the opportunity (like normal). Then gratefully running away to get drinks while trying, on some level, to process what in the hell had just happened ... and then the photos. Getting ripped from his confusing "new" world to be thrown with PTSD-intensity back into captivity/survival world.

Finally, he puts two and two together, which intensifies the conflict and confusion in his head and tosses in an increasing dose of pain. And then Obie tells him the truth. With a no-longer-caring "embrace" ... in a mean, ugly voice ... and with eyes that no longer try to hide his true feelings for this stupid child-in-a-man's-body who had always been a nuisance and had now actually messed with Obediah's world. "Bled out" is such an accurate description of Tony's shock.

Can I just say now that when Obie called him "a little prick" later, my heart hurt a lot. I can imagine that some part of Tony probably didn't care if the blast from the reactor killed him (Tony).

[sighs heavily] Thank you for letting me join, if only for a moment.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

DEAR GOD. DID YOU JUST WADE THROUGH THAT ENTIRE THREAD OF CRACKFACEDRY?

where Pepper succumbs to his unholy magnetism

Ahahah. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Either gabby_silang or dafnap in Son of Uberthread over on dafnap's LJ pointed out that in that scene, it kind alooks like he has his hand on the bare skin of her back. Tony Stark transmits lust by touch, yo.

Can I just say now that when Obie called him "a little prick" later, my heart hurt a lot.

GOD. As you have probably figured out from this thread, I could write 1MM fics about how betrayed Tony felt by Obediah doing that. God. It's. Words fail me for how much I love Tony Stark's daddy issues. :D

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Poor gabby_silang. She's going to come on the Internet and find fourteen million comments between us about the symbolic import of Tony Stark's facial hair selection. AND we'll be fired! For totally sucking at this whole work thing!

Tony doesn't yet realize people are capable of feeling just as strongly about a stance completely opposite to his

That would probably make his head explode. No, seriously, it would. I don't think his moral education has prepared him for that at all, and if anything, having Obediah as his first real battle as Iron Man is only going to make it harder for him to think of people who disagree with him as being legitimate. I mean, dude, Obediah was pretty much a Tony Stark Soul Destroyer Special. If you want to make sure a dude sees stuff in black-and-white, with-me-against-me, it's hard to think of a first confrontation that'll do it more than something where the villain is not only out to kill the guy and people he loves pregent what he wants to do, but he's even fucking with Stark's sense of identity.

really think that's what sets Iron Man apart from most other superhero movies aside from X-Men, the characters feel like they have actual interiority

Oh, I'm willing to say that Iron Man blows every single other superhero movie, ever, out of the water when it comes to interioricity. I love Singer's X-men with a deep and true passion and furious passion, but even Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan end up being the sum of their superhero spandex.

And I don't even like Gwyneth Paltrow.

OH LOOK, gabby_silang just showed up to spank us for littering all over her inbox.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

She's going to come on the Internet and find fourteen million comments between us about the symbolic import of Tony Stark's facial hair selection.

I'm pretty sure she's into the same flavor of pain as we are,

Oh, I'm willing to say that Iron Man blows every single other superhero movie, ever, out of the water when it comes to interioricity.

Oh thank god, because I swear I think it's pretty much my favorite superhero movie (and movie, but I have little to no taste when it comes to actual film, so we'll just pretend I didn't type that, kay?) ever, and people keep throwing Batman Begins in my face, and I'm like "REALLY? THIRTY MINUTES JUST TO PICK A PURPLE FUCKING FLOWER?" and this is coming from a girl that sports a DC comics pin on practically every article of clothing she owns (you work in a comic store long enough, suddenly everything you own suffers the same fate.)

BB was fun, sure, but the script was as weak as most of the supporting cast and films need to be a group effort. Iron Man across the board was fucking top. notch.

And I don't even like Gwyneth Paltrow.

I KNOW, RIGHT? I never expected Pepper Potts to be one of my favorite parts of the film. I'm ashamed to say, but I've been burned by how they handle the female protagonists in superhero films to many times before, I wasn't going to give her a chance. And now I've got like 20 pages of back-story fic all because G-Pat won me over with her little grin-toe-heel spin with the espresso cup in her first scene. Cripes.

If you want to make sure a dude sees stuff in black-and-white, with-me-against-me, it's hard to think of a first confrontation that'll do it more

I didn't even think about that, how the conflict with Stane might practically imprint that sort of automatic response in Tony. That's going to be so fucking frustrating for his friends, when already trying to get Tony to act normal was an uphill process before Afghanistan, now that he's playing the righteous-warrior angle it can't get any easier. Dealing with true believers is always a bitch, but a true believer in a high-tech rocket suit? Ouch.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[gabby-silang.livejournal.com]

but a true believer in a high-tech rocket suit?

I am so in love with that. Because by that, I mean Tony. I want really badly to write something that's all about his total true-believer, old-school patriotic heart. Tony would unironically wear a US flag pin on his lapel. Tony voted for Arnold. Tony has never learned a foreign language in his life, except the bits that help him to order food, or the local equivalent of "my place or yours." Well, actually just my place. Tony never goes to yours.

Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

OK. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but I need to get this off my chest: I loved Batman Begins. I have loved Batman since I started sneaking TV on afternoons after school solely so that I could watch B:TAS. Imprinting on Bruce Wayne is probably why I'm nuts about Tony Stark; I'm a huge fangirl for Liam Neeson and Christian Bale and blue-eyed boys with dark hair, too.

AND YET. AND YET. BB doesn't hold a match to the SHINING COLUMN OF AWESOME that is Iron Man. It's not fair to put Pepper or Everheart against wassernameicannotremember from BB because they blow every other female superhero character out of the water except for, maybe, the ladies from the X franchise, and in that case, it's only because Jean Grey and Storm and everybody's favorite formerly-married-to-the-cute-brother-from-Full-House shapeshifter have powers that are about 10000000x more badass than anybody else onscreen. Yeah, they're cool and tough, but their identities are based on their superpowers -- not being tough, smart, professional women like Pepper and UNLOOKED FOR BONUS OF THE YEAR Everheart are. Which makes me <3 them in for fic slightly less because it's easy to be awesome hwen you control lightning bolts.

Anyways. Even if you do a Bale v. RDJ comparison, there's nothing there. I love Bale and respect his work, but he reads flat as Batman. Which isn't to say that's not the way Bruce Wayne should be played because dear God, I am first abord the "Bruce Wayne is fucked up" train, but it also means that there isn't nearly the amount of depth and nuance in his performance. You need the thirty minutes of purple flower picking to explain why Bruce Wayne is where he is; you could just start with Tony getting off the plane, and I'd still buy the rest of the movie 125%.

And that is my piece.

Re: second time through = golden. i&amp;amp;#39;m thinking about going time #3.

[gabby-silang.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah. Please stop talking about Iron Man all over me. I hate that shit. Can't we talk about ponies instead?

Meanwhile, in the real world:


That would probably make his head explode. No, seriously, it would. I don't think his moral education has prepared him for that at all, and if anything, having Obediah as his first real battle as Iron Man is only going to make it harder for him to think of people who disagree with him as being legitimate. I mean, dude, Obediah was pretty much a Tony Stark Soul Destroyer Special. If you want to make sure a dude sees stuff in black-and-white, with-me-against-me, it's hard to think of a first confrontation that'll do it more than something where the villain is not only out to kill the guy and people he loves pregent what he wants to do, but he's even fucking with Stark's sense of identity.

AUJDFNVKUFGBFN ESVLCJBSCF%!!!!!!!!!!! CIVIL WAAAAAAAAAAR.

Re: second time through = golden. i&amp;amp;#39;m thinking about going time #3.

[gabby-silang.livejournal.com]

Um, okay, that didn't make sense. What I meant was HOLY SHIT you have explained to me, totally satisfactorily, Tony's actions during Marvel's Civil War. I can now sleep peacefully.

And go re-read the whole thing again, only without the headaches.

Re: second time through = golden. i&amp;amp;#39;m thinking about going time #3.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

is only going to make it harder for him to think of people who disagree with him as being legitimate.

Which is why he needs to meet Captain America but quick -- because if anyone can disagree with Tony but still be unimpeachably legitimate, it's Steve Rogers. The man is *sincere* all the damned time.

Re: second time through = golden. i&amp;#39;m thinking about going time #3.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

I'm totally stepping into your conversation, linked here from your journal, just to say:

I really think that's what sets Iron Man apart from most other superhero movies aside from X-Men, the characters feel like they have actual interiority.

exactly. Yes!

Re: second time through = golden. i&amp;#39;m thinking about going time #3.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Tony and Rhodey had sketched out ideas for the Iron Man suit after Rhodey introduced him to weed and beer freshman year, and the 3 months in the cave was like a forced vacation for Tony to actually get to work on that dream project.

Also, OK. I think you need to write this.