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May. 26th, 2008 01:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
quigonejinnFreedom Hangs Like Heaven.
Iron Man set to Iron and Wine.
20MB, XviD or play in VLC
I'm going to end up recutting this when the DVD comes up because right now, there's this CERTAIN SCENE where SOME FUCKING DOUCHEBAG decides to HANG HIS FUCKING HAND off the side of the CAMERA and then some other asshole walks across andf;lkjgdf. I couldn't figure out a way to cut around it, so that scene sucks. And there's one bit where Rhodey is a talking head, but I figured that I've wasted a week of my life already on this.
So yes. Iron Man and Iron and Wine with Calexico production. And just ignore the fact that they use the wrong reign/reins on that Forbes cover. XD
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Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 08:02 pm (UTC)Lunch breaks are cruel.
ANYWAY. First off:
(Because he arguably doesn't know that she's sleeping with SHIELD now.)
Hee! Because she is! (sidenote: how adorable was Pepper's interaction with Coulson at the plant? "Oooh. Is that a super-high tech lock picking thing?" Because she's been around Tony long enough to find machines neeeeeeeat.)
But secondly, re: the when did Obi decide to choke the golden goose. The more I think about it, the more I'm figuring that Afghanistan was the window of opportunity he was looking for, for awhile. Tony Stark is probably insured and lawyered up the ass, and there's probably a shedton of clauses in all those contracts and shit that specify specific sort of instances where the company would revert back to Obie. I'm guessing conveniently "accidental" deaths that a guy like Tony might get into, like car crashes or overdoses or being smothered between a woman's thighs, are effectively ruled out since Tony's lawyers (who care more about his safety than Tony seems to most of the time, much to everyone's chagrin) probably have red-flags attached to those.
But something like Afghanistan? Sort of like the presidency, I'm guessing before taking trips to war-torn countries to sell weapons, Tony signs shit that transfers temporary control to Obie while he's out of the country, and BOY. Maybe those are the papers Pepper had him sign before she hustled him out? (Oh, man, poor PEPPER.)
Man, that's long and convoluted I know, but super-billionaire CEOs probably have bookcases full of if-then clauses for shit like this.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 08:18 pm (UTC)conveniently "accidental" deaths that a guy like Tony might get into, like car crashes or overdoses or being smothered between a woman's thighs
::cackle:: Oh, awesome. And I like the whole thought: "in case of this, check it out A WHOLE LOT". I'd add that it might not be lawyers, exactly, but that the military, who has a whole lot riding on the whole idea of keeping Tony Stark alive and exclusively on their side*, might be the leaning force on that one.
But something like Afghanistan? Sort of like the presidency, I'm guessing before taking trips to war-torn countries to sell weapons, Tony signs shit that transfers temporary control to Obie while he's out of the country, and BOY. Maybe those are the papers Pepper had him sign before she hustled him out? (Oh, man, poor PEPPER.)
BRAIN JUST BLEW UP. Okay, I am eyeing this with such interest right now, you have no idea. Oh, PEPPER. Yes, I can totally see this happening. It's probably rote by now. They've probably done it eighty times. And this time, the trap was sprung! ...because, yeah, think about it, first Obadiah would think "wow, it would be great if he'd just die on one of these, because then there wouldn't be a question of who'd succeed him like there was with Howard" (wait, I just made that up, but it's another wonderful thing along the lines of him taking out his post-Howard's-death frustrations on Tony) and then having to get 10 Rings to agree to this (which does beg the question of which came first: dealing under the table, or wanting to kill Tony?), and then setting up the trip.
Add in that, knowing Tony, he may well have skipped some of these trips at the last minute in the past. Obadiah has got to have serious ulcers by now. I could almost feel BAD for him.
* Incidentally, and not in keeping with the military-is-good-folks theme in the movie, if the military knew they couldn't get Tony back, and knew he was building weapons for terrorists... does he become expendable? Like, shoot-to-kill expendable? I can totally see that happening, in a scary way.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 08:35 pm (UTC)I didn't think of that! THAT'S REALLY CREEPY. I have this proto-fic brewing of things that might have happened if Tony didn't make it back (like if they found Tony in the desert too late, and the only thing left of his genius is the ratty 'stache on his dissected corpse, and the glowing arc-reactor that's immediately co-opted by the government for military use, and Rhodes is in charge of its implementation and there's MASSIVE. MASSIVE guilt all around. but. you know, all of a sudden your idea is so. much. better.)
Tony tends to keep his best inventions close to his chest (har), and I'm guessing there are plenty of things in his mansion workshop that they've been petitioning to get a crack at for AGES. Maybe Obie struck a deal with a faction in the government that wants to continue the war (war = increased economy ala World War II, right? riiiight? Oh. wait.) and Obie agrees to turn over all of Tony's things once he comes into power in exchange for free under-the-table-weapons-dealing reign.
Oh maaaaan.
"wow, it would be great if he'd just die on one of these, because then there wouldn't be a question of who'd succeed him like there was with Howard"
OKAY. NOW MY BRAIN WENT EXPLODEY. This is going a long way to describe what "????" may have been in his plan. Because he tried this once before and missed the part where Howard (like you said) may not have been the best businessman ever, but he's still a genius, and had that one clause in a contract somewhere to cover his back. But the second time around Obie knows better, knows what to look for and damn. Howard might not have been the best dad ever, but he tried, on some level, to look out for his kid. Or maybe just his inventions, but he trusts a 10 year old more than Obie and that's got hurt Ol' Obie a lot too. Man, I'm starting to feel a little for him too.
Okay. My brain is blown. You win.
(ps. I'm friending you so you can see the Epic Post, Part Dos that I had to lock for fear of RL work people. you totally don't have to friend back, but there's some epic meta talk going on there too that you might like)
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:27 pm (UTC)WARNING. LEGAL GEEKERY AHEAD. IGNORE. IGNORE. IGNORE. OF NO INTEREST TO ANYBODY BUT ME.
I mean, OK. That's what Obediah has to be out for, even more than the life insurance and inheriting Pepper as his PA. XD He wants Tony's control of Stark Industries, and we know that Stark Industries is publicly traded, which means that for Tony probably has some kind of super-majority of the voting stock. Enough so that if he wanted to, he could make Butterfingers to the Board.
As far as my feeble brain goes, there're two general ways Obediah thinks he can get his hands on those shares if Tony dies -- straight-up inheritance through Tony's will (because he does have a will, and Pepper is probably going to get enough money to keep her in cabana boys and heels for the rest of her life, but the rest of it is going to Obie), but you'd get a bitchin' tax consequences, and both Tony and Howard would have hired better lawyers than that.
My best guess: for tax purposes, Howard, while alive, probably put his interest in Stark Industries in some kind of trust "for Tony" or "for the family." He controls it while he's alive as the trustee, with a provision that when he kicks the bucket, trusted family friend Obediah will watch over the trust with the obligation of furthering Tony's interests. Hah. Howard kicks the bucket; for two glorious years, Obediah is the successor trustee, but then, the lawyers give him a nasty shock when they explain that when Tony hits twenty-one, voting control transfers over to him. Which he does, essentially yanking the company out from under Obie.
But. Since the shares remain fundamentally in the trust, if Tony dies, there isn't anybody to exercise the rights, and they go back to the trustee.
There'd definitely be shenangans with holding and shell companies named ludicrously funny things. PLus, if it's purely "for the family," then if Tony dies, the trust might cease to have a purpose. But there's gotta be a way around it, and yeah, it's gotta work something like that.
NOW TO TRY AND NOT GET FIRED.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:42 pm (UTC)THIS IS ALL MY MOM TALKS ABOUT OVER DINNER WHEN I'M HOME. I'm getting squiggy warm family flashbacks :D
There'd definitely be shenanigans with holding and shell companies named ludicrously funny things.
Oh, that's just a glorious thought. That Obie took advantage of one of the many tax-shelter, shell companies to use for the under-the-table weapons dealing shenanigans.
I know we've been working under the Obie-Killed-Howard assumption for awhile now, but I'm kind of digging the idea that it wasn't planned. That Obie didn't start off with the "Hey, I know a perfect solution to my problem...Murder!"
Because this:
Howard kicks the bucket; for two glorious years, Obediah is the successor trustee, but then, the lawyers give him a nasty shock when they explain that when Tony hits twenty-one, voting control transfers over to him.
The implication that maybe Obie sort of fell in love with total power then, and that working with Tony (who, lets face it, is two parts ridiculous to one part pathetically puppy-like when it comes to looking-up to his father) has got to be frustrating after having been the king for awhile. Here's this young, 21 year old upstart who never properly matured because, hello, a doctorate in his teens? Is still a doctorate, and even older people sort of break apart during that time, no telling how a kid with crazy hormones, strange hair growing in places he doesn't understand and no stable home-life to speak of, will come out. Certainly not with an ego that's easy to work with.
...which brings back our, like, SUPER EARLY conversation about how maybe Tony drove Obie slowly crazy and carried him straight to "Murder: for what ails you!" when no other legal/sane solution seemed possible.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:50 pm (UTC)Okay, that trumps my earlier brilliance. Wo0t!
Here's this young, 21 year old upstart who never properly matured because, hello, a doctorate in his teens?
And lost both parents at once. Peggin' the needle on the Messed Up O'Meter.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:52 pm (UTC)God, in my head, when I went to see the movei for the second time, the moment that Obie says that the board has filed an injunction against Tony, I immediately started praying that I'd actually wandered itno an alternate universe where the rest of the movie is about the courtroom legal battle that follows. IT'S LIKE JOHN GRISHAM, BUT WITH TONY GETTING CROSS-EXAMINED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Although. What. Trying to parse out the actual grounds for relief makes my head explode.)
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Date: 2008-05-29 10:11 pm (UTC)SEE, THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING. Except I may not have mentioned it in this thread, so, never mind, but if I had said it, THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING. It is SO MUCH MORE AWESOME that way, because sudden death HELPED before, and so now it's kind of in his mental toolbox even if he hadn't planned on actually using it, y'know?
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Date: 2008-05-29 10:25 pm (UTC)...which brings back our, like, SUPER EARLY conversation about how maybe Tony drove Obie slowly crazy and carried him straight to "Murder: for what ails you!" when no other legal/sane solution seemed possible.
I've kind of been working on that for a while (oh, and you'll see that; please pardon the mess at my journal-- the fic that won't fucking end is not looking its best right now and I am FIXING IT and if you have any thoughts, please pitch in), since honestly Obadiah seems to spend all of his time wrangling Tony and seems very, very tired of it.
Here is where it became a magnificent moment in my life: when I put Obadiah and Pepper in the same room and all of a sudden (without admitting anything, of course) he was trying to connect with her on the long-suffering Tony Wrangler level. At which point it occurred to me:
a) He seriously thinks it's a good thing that he's trying to kill Tony because Tony is too annoying to live.
b) He seriously thinks on some level that Pepper would agree with him-- or, more, that after another ten years of Tony, Pepper would agree with him.
c) OH MY GOD, NOW I NEED TO WRITE MORE OF THESE TWO BECAUSE HE SO TOTALLY WILL WANT TO MENTOR HER. IT'S LIKE JACK DONAUGHY AND LIZ LEMON.
I have to lie down, I think. But I am so happy about having legal thoughts done by people who know their shit. SO SO HAPPY. If I could only figure out what post Pepper would be groomed for, I could... okay, I would say 'die happy' except I would be unhappy, having to choose between yapping on LJ with you guys about this stuff and ACTUALLY WRITING.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
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Date: 2008-05-29 09:43 pm (UTC)But! I found it so fascinating that Tony said "we own controlling interest" ... and seemed to include Pepper, though he probably just meant himself and Obie. So it would seem that Obie, of course, wants it all to himself. And therefore if Pepper was included in Tony's statement, then Obie would either have to take control over her or kill her too. (Wow! I hadn't thought of that before.)
I also had a fascination with her sitting there on the couch working - or pretending to work - on her laptop while Tony and Obie talked. Like she was (used to) being Tony's buffer or watchdog or something. And how pissed Tony got when she seemed to side with Obie twice. In fact, he was looking at her when he said "Screw this" and got up to leave.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:47 pm (UTC)To which Pepper eyerolls and Obie carefully hides the shank.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
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Date: 2008-05-29 09:55 pm (UTC)Shallow sidenote: Pepper's little stretch-and-yawn in the background during Tony's little stomp off was adorable.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:54 pm (UTC)YOU ARE PHENOMENAL. Do not get fired. THIS IS GENIUS.
Enough so that if he wanted to, he could make Butterfingers to the Board.
You are making me think terrible things about Caligula now and I can see the TONY STARK, EMPEROR OF ROME thing spinning out in front of me. Except instead of his favorite horse, his favorite robotic arm. OF COURSE.
That's what Obediah has to be out for, even more than the life insurance and inheriting Pepper as his PA.
You will have no idea why I'm laughing so hard at this, but I actually was writing a whole mumblesheet today on Obadiah and his thoughts on Pepper Potts. So this made me giggle. ANYWAY MOVING ON.
My point being that considering that my parents, the midwestern public school teachers, could get that sort of thing set up (they don't understand it, but they like it!), I am completely and totally positive that you're right about the trust. And that is FANTASTIC.
There'd definitely be shenangans with holding and shell companies named ludicrously funny things.
Oh God. Now I'm wracking my brain for funny shell company names. I mean, it would be one thing if it as TONY naming them, but Obadiah is a man who rides a Segway NON-IRONICALLY.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:35 pm (UTC)Ooh ... that would make for a great 5-things or some such.
(And my offer stands to you to ... if you need a beta ... I come with references ... etc, etc.)
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:31 pm (UTC)Heh. You have a point there.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:55 pm (UTC)Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 10:30 pm (UTC)I love this idea!
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:27 pm (UTC)It was adorable! I also think that early on in their working relationship, Tony sat her down and told her to ask him any time she didn't understand something. (He probably either thought it was really "cool" that she was interested at all in his stuff or he jumped at the attention, at the lifeline that someone-not-an-engineer could be and was interested in him) Because I also loved in the scene with her sticking her hand in his chest that she asked what Operation was ... and even though he brushed her question off then (because, um, time of the essence), I just got the feeling that she never hesitated to ask when he said or did something she didn't understand. Which I thought was cool. :^)
Maybe those are the papers Pepper had him sign before she hustled him out? (Oh, man, poor PEPPER.)
Oh shit! I hate that thought! No, Pepper, don't figure that one out! That would hurt her so much. (Fic Bunny # ...) (Which kinda goes along with Fic Bunny # 192: What kind of PTSD reaction does Pepper have because of (a) being almost killed by Iron Monger and (b) having to push the button and thinking she'd killed Tony. Because that is one of the most powerful things in the movie, to me. That she did push the button when she truly thought it would kill him.) (And Fic Bunny #193: What kind of injuries did Pepper have to heal from, what with all that falling glass, falling monster, and explosions? I mean really, did she get out of and far away from the building, hide in an explosion-proof bunker, or what?)
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:50 pm (UTC)RIGHT? God, and she did it anyway. Because Pepper is damn good at her job, and despite almost jumping his bones earlier that week, she's more than able to press the button that (with the information available to her at that moment) was sure to kill him. Because Pepper is Ms. Compartmentalization and managed to set aside her personal feelings to save the day.
I don't think Tony could do what she did at the moment, at all. Because Tony takes everything personally. He's the type of personality that believes if you want something done right, you do it yourself, which is why he can make that immediate mental leap to building the damn suit and trying to become a superhero in the first place, and why he's also a little suicidal, because he asked Pepper to kill him, which wow. PTSD like WOAH.
I mean really, did she get out of and far away from the building, hide in an explosion-proof bunker, or what?
AHAHAHA. I KNOW. I still haven't been able to properly figure out how she survived that yet. But then again, I haven't yet reconciled myself with the physics of the movie that allows Tony to survive crash landing in the desert with the bucket of bolts that was the Mark I, much less slamming face first into a concrete beam during the repulsor test and emerging free of any broken bones.
Oi. I'm stressing over the physics of a superhero movie. This is not a healthy sign.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:58 pm (UTC)Yep. Night terrors while dozing on the couch ... sending Tony into utter panic the first time she screams or can't wake up.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 10:52 pm (UTC)Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-30 12:09 am (UTC)Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 10:01 pm (UTC)Okay, and also (this is like the first chance I have had to talk about this stuff out with other fans and I am LOVING THIS), Pepper is, like, crazy protective of Tony. Really, really, really protective. She follows him regardless of what he asks her to do on a moral level (oh dear lord, "taking out the trash"-- she's protecting him FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS OWN ACTIONS, then and a lot of other times), but the one time she threatens to quit, it's because he's putting himself in mortal danger and asking her to help him and she seriously cannot deal.
Which leads me to the point in which I figure well, you do not appear to be a crazy person, and I want other IM people helping me hash out my fic, so I am going to friend you back. (Oh please don't be crazy. Or mean. Or a giant robot.)
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 10:21 pm (UTC)Bwahahahaha ...
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 10:27 pm (UTC)Yes! Totally. (See my comment about her sitting on the couch when Obie came over, brought pizza, played piano, and generally ruined Tony's evening. (Actually, I still think Pepper ruined it, but ...))