quigonejinn

but that the military, who has a whole lot riding on the whole idea of keeping Tony Stark alive and exclusively on their side*, might be the leaning force on that one...Like, shoot-to-kill expendable?

I didn't think of that! THAT'S REALLY CREEPY. I have this proto-fic brewing of things that might have happened if Tony didn't make it back (like if they found Tony in the desert too late, and the only thing left of his genius is the ratty 'stache on his dissected corpse, and the glowing arc-reactor that's immediately co-opted by the government for military use, and Rhodes is in charge of its implementation and there's MASSIVE. MASSIVE guilt all around. but. you know, all of a sudden your idea is so. much. better.)

Tony tends to keep his best inventions close to his chest (har), and I'm guessing there are plenty of things in his mansion workshop that they've been petitioning to get a crack at for AGES. Maybe Obie struck a deal with a faction in the government that wants to continue the war (war = increased economy ala World War II, right? riiiight? Oh. wait.) and Obie agrees to turn over all of Tony's things once he comes into power in exchange for free under-the-table-weapons-dealing reign.

Oh maaaaan.

"wow, it would be great if he'd just die on one of these, because then there wouldn't be a question of who'd succeed him like there was with Howard"

OKAY. NOW MY BRAIN WENT EXPLODEY. This is going a long way to describe what "????" may have been in his plan. Because he tried this once before and missed the part where Howard (like you said) may not have been the best businessman ever, but he's still a genius, and had that one clause in a contract somewhere to cover his back. But the second time around Obie knows better, knows what to look for and damn. Howard might not have been the best dad ever, but he tried, on some level, to look out for his kid. Or maybe just his inventions, but he trusts a 10 year old more than Obie and that's got hurt Ol' Obie a lot too. Man, I'm starting to feel a little for him too.

Okay. My brain is blown. You win.

(ps. I'm friending you so you can see the Epic Post, Part Dos that I had to lock for fear of RL work people. you totally don't have to friend back, but there's some epic meta talk going on there too that you might like)

From:

Both of you are bitches because now, I can't stop thinking about the equity structure of Stark Industries, and how this might actually work.

WARNING. LEGAL GEEKERY AHEAD. IGNORE. IGNORE. IGNORE. OF NO INTEREST TO ANYBODY BUT ME.

I mean, OK. That's what Obediah has to be out for, even more than the life insurance and inheriting Pepper as his PA. XD He wants Tony's control of Stark Industries, and we know that Stark Industries is publicly traded, which means that for Tony probably has some kind of super-majority of the voting stock. Enough so that if he wanted to, he could make Butterfingers to the Board.

As far as my feeble brain goes, there're two general ways Obediah thinks he can get his hands on those shares if Tony dies -- straight-up inheritance through Tony's will (because he does have a will, and Pepper is probably going to get enough money to keep her in cabana boys and heels for the rest of her life, but the rest of it is going to Obie), but you'd get a bitchin' tax consequences, and both Tony and Howard would have hired better lawyers than that.

My best guess: for tax purposes, Howard, while alive, probably put his interest in Stark Industries in some kind of trust "for Tony" or "for the family." He controls it while he's alive as the trustee, with a provision that when he kicks the bucket, trusted family friend Obediah will watch over the trust with the obligation of furthering Tony's interests. Hah. Howard kicks the bucket; for two glorious years, Obediah is the successor trustee, but then, the lawyers give him a nasty shock when they explain that when Tony hits twenty-one, voting control transfers over to him. Which he does, essentially yanking the company out from under Obie.

But. Since the shares remain fundamentally in the trust, if Tony dies, there isn't anybody to exercise the rights, and they go back to the trustee.

There'd definitely be shenangans with holding and shell companies named ludicrously funny things. PLus, if it's purely "for the family," then if Tony dies, the trust might cease to have a purpose. But there's gotta be a way around it, and yeah, it's gotta work something like that.

NOW TO TRY AND NOT GET FIRED.

From:

WARNING. LEGAL GEEKERY AHEAD. IGNORE. IGNORE. IGNORE. OF NO INTEREST TO ANYBODY BUT ME.

THIS IS ALL MY MOM TALKS ABOUT OVER DINNER WHEN I'M HOME. I'm getting squiggy warm family flashbacks :D

There'd definitely be shenanigans with holding and shell companies named ludicrously funny things.

Oh, that's just a glorious thought. That Obie took advantage of one of the many tax-shelter, shell companies to use for the under-the-table weapons dealing shenanigans.

I know we've been working under the Obie-Killed-Howard assumption for awhile now, but I'm kind of digging the idea that it wasn't planned. That Obie didn't start off with the "Hey, I know a perfect solution to my problem...Murder!"

Because this:

Howard kicks the bucket; for two glorious years, Obediah is the successor trustee, but then, the lawyers give him a nasty shock when they explain that when Tony hits twenty-one, voting control transfers over to him.

The implication that maybe Obie sort of fell in love with total power then, and that working with Tony (who, lets face it, is two parts ridiculous to one part pathetically puppy-like when it comes to looking-up to his father) has got to be frustrating after having been the king for awhile. Here's this young, 21 year old upstart who never properly matured because, hello, a doctorate in his teens? Is still a doctorate, and even older people sort of break apart during that time, no telling how a kid with crazy hormones, strange hair growing in places he doesn't understand and no stable home-life to speak of, will come out. Certainly not with an ego that's easy to work with.

...which brings back our, like, SUPER EARLY conversation about how maybe Tony drove Obie slowly crazy and carried him straight to "Murder: for what ails you!" when no other legal/sane solution seemed possible.

From:

Howard kicks the bucket; for two glorious years, Obediah is the successor trustee, but then, the lawyers give him a nasty shock when they explain that when Tony hits twenty-one, voting control transfers over to him.

Okay, that trumps my earlier brilliance. Wo0t!

Here's this young, 21 year old upstart who never properly matured because, hello, a doctorate in his teens?

And lost both parents at once. Peggin' the needle on the Messed Up O'Meter.

From:

Wait, did he get his doctorate in the movie? I thought he'd just graduated summa.

God, in my head, when I went to see the movei for the second time, the moment that Obie says that the board has filed an injunction against Tony, I immediately started praying that I'd actually wandered itno an alternate universe where the rest of the movie is about the courtroom legal battle that follows. IT'S LIKE JOHN GRISHAM, BUT WITH TONY GETTING CROSS-EXAMINED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Although. What. Trying to parse out the actual grounds for relief makes my head explode.)

From:

Wait, did he get his doctorate in the movie? I thought he'd just graduated summa.

I may have been confusing fic with canon again. Crap. Because you're right, if he had a doctorate he'd insist on everyone calling him "DOCTOR STARKSTER" all the time because he's an ASS and would totally get off on it.

I immediately started praying that I'd actually wandered itno an alternate universe where the rest of the movie is about the courtroom legal battle that follows.

GOD, CAN YOU IMAGINE? Pepper being asked to go on the stand, getting cross-examined as to the mental well-being of her boss, and Tony being all "Lets get married and then you can't testify against me!"

Or, you know, seriously, how gut-wrenching would it be if Pepper and Rhoades DID get put on the stand, and be forced to testify as to his mental state, and them being torn between being really fucking worried (because hello, metal suit with guns to protect you from the scary world) and not wanting to be the instruments used to take yet another thing from Tony, because he'd been through so much already.

Oh. My heart.

From:

I always expect the narrator to say "and his doctorate at", but it hasn't happened yet (maybe in the TV version -g-). But it's good fanon ... though you are so right about "Dr. Starkster". LOLOL!

From:

I may have been confusing fic with canon again. Crap. Because you're right, if he had a doctorate he'd insist on everyone calling him "DOCTOR STARKSTER" all the time because he's an ASS and would totally get off on it.

asdkfj;lkdf. I was going to say that the next event in his life was losing Mummy and Daddy at age 19, but your explanation is far, far, far funnier.

I only remember because I love the idea of Tony with his little BS or, at max, MS, running RINGS and CIRCLES and HIPPODROMES around every PhD int he room. And smirking about it. Because Tony Stark doesn't fucking need degrees to own your ass in advanced math. He doesn't even need paper and pencil.

And oh God. Oh God. The Board raising the suit as evidence that Tony is mentally unstable? omfg omfg omfffffg. *cradles head, refuses to think of whether you can get discovery for something like this*

From:

Because you're right, if he had a doctorate he'd insist on everyone calling him "DOCTOR STARKSTER" all the time because he's an ASS and would totally get off on it.

YES, YES HE WOULD. So, probably no doctorate.

"Lets get married and then you can't testify against me!"

Okay, you do realize that now you're going to have to write that. Because if you don't do it first, somebody else will do it, and they will do it so terribly that we will all die of the cosmic stench.

From:

I know we've been working under the Obie-Killed-Howard assumption for awhile now, but I'm kind of digging the idea that it wasn't planned.

SEE, THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING. Except I may not have mentioned it in this thread, so, never mind, but if I had said it, THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING. It is SO MUCH MORE AWESOME that way, because sudden death HELPED before, and so now it's kind of in his mental toolbox even if he hadn't planned on actually using it, y'know?

From:

It is SO MUCH MORE AWESOME that way, because sudden death HELPED before, and so now it's kind of in his mental toolbox even if he hadn't planned on actually using it, y'know?

EXACTLY. I mean, I always hate bringing it back to Tony, because you cannot understand the absolute kick I'm having out of the fact the meta has now turned to Obie (last night it was Christine Everhart which amused me to noooooooo end) but SERIOUSLY. Think of how hard that realization is going to hit Tony, that Obie, his father figure, the only stable relationship he's had outside of Rhodey, Pepper, and Happy (and the last two don't count 'cause he pays 'em), eventually grew to hate him to the point of making a genuine effort in killing him, and maybe the same thing will happen to the rest of the people he calls friends, maybe there's something wrong with Tony, and everyone he loves or looks up to either dies (parents, Yinsin) or will eventually come to hate him.

That's going to fucking sting.

From:

It is THAT GREAT. Seriously, that is GREAT. The Obadiah thing is the gift that keeps on giving, I think, because we can play this SO MANY WAYS because they never nailed it down in the movie. If it wasn't that my great joy in life is writing Tony dialogue (which, strangely, a week ago I was convinced I couldn't pull off), my next fic would totally have to be a Stane/Stark Sr. epic. OBADIAH IS WONDERFUL.

And, seriously, I have got to have you on Team NeverFuckingEnding Fic, in which I have stumbled into the Obadiah thing headfirst. It's all flocked on my journal and I am downright begging you for discussion on it because like THREE PEOPLE I KNOW love Iron Man and I'm getting NOTHING from them on discussion right now.

(And because I am so desperate for encouragement. It is a sad fact. Soon I will drive you away with my neediness. OH MY GOD I AM TONY STARK. ::cough::)

From:

And, seriously, I have got to have you on Team NeverFuckingEnding Fic, in which I have stumbled into the Obadiah thing headfirst.

I'm going to be there with BELLS on if I get through this week at work alive (which is becoming increasingly harder because this fandom is AMAZING and it's all I want to talk about ever). Ask

quigonejinn, I enjoy talking about other people's fic more than actually writing my own, because I am the queen of failed follow-thru and have, like, a thousand protofics chilling in my googledocs looking at me with wide eyes going "weren't you an english major? aren't you supposed to understand the basics of storytelling and grammar?"

OBADIAH IS WONDERFUL

Soon we're going to need t-shirts. With a stencil of Obie on his segway and a banner of "ROLLING WITH OBIE" in gangster font. It'll be awesome.

From:

I'm going to be there with BELLS on if I get through this week at work alive

YAAAAAY! Except the work part. BOOOOO WORK.

(which is becoming increasingly harder because this fandom is AMAZING and it's all I want to talk about ever)

You have now discovered the reason I have accomplished little if anything at my job in two weeks. Happily, it's summer, and everything gets really quiet in the summer.

Ask [info]quigonejinn, I enjoy talking about other people's fic more than actually writing my own, because I am the queen of failed follow-thru and have, like, a thousand protofics chilling in my googledocs looking at me with wide eyes going "weren't you an english major? aren't you supposed to understand the basics of storytelling and grammar?"

YOU ALSO USE GOOGLEDOCS. Okay, this is good, I felt like a freak, but it suits my lifestyle. And, yeah, I have many failed things in my folders. Mostly the many, many, many tries at getting an original fiction novel written. Apparently I find my own imaginary world way too dull and must go play in others'.

Soon we're going to need t-shirts. With a stencil of Obie on his segway and a banner of "ROLLING WITH OBIE" in gangster font. It'll be awesome.

HAHAHAHAHA! Um, YEAH WE DO. We need this, like, NOW.

Re: second time through = golden. i&#39;m thinking about going time #3.

From:

besyd.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-30 12:07 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

Soon we're going to need t-shirts. With a stencil of Obie on his segway and a banner of "ROLLING WITH OBIE" in gangster font. It'll be awesome.

The fuck you mean soon. I NEED ONE RIGHT. NOW.

Re: second time through = golden. i&amp;#39;m thinking about going time #3.

From:

obsession-inc.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-29 11:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

ALSO!

...which brings back our, like, SUPER EARLY conversation about how maybe Tony drove Obie slowly crazy and carried him straight to "Murder: for what ails you!" when no other legal/sane solution seemed possible.

I've kind of been working on that for a while (oh, and you'll see that; please pardon the mess at my journal-- the fic that won't fucking end is not looking its best right now and I am FIXING IT and if you have any thoughts, please pitch in), since honestly Obadiah seems to spend all of his time wrangling Tony and seems very, very tired of it.

Here is where it became a magnificent moment in my life: when I put Obadiah and Pepper in the same room and all of a sudden (without admitting anything, of course) he was trying to connect with her on the long-suffering Tony Wrangler level. At which point it occurred to me:

a) He seriously thinks it's a good thing that he's trying to kill Tony because Tony is too annoying to live.

b) He seriously thinks on some level that Pepper would agree with him-- or, more, that after another ten years of Tony, Pepper would agree with him.

c) OH MY GOD, NOW I NEED TO WRITE MORE OF THESE TWO BECAUSE HE SO TOTALLY WILL WANT TO MENTOR HER. IT'S LIKE JACK DONAUGHY AND LIZ LEMON.

I have to lie down, I think. But I am so happy about having legal thoughts done by people who know their shit. SO SO HAPPY. If I could only figure out what post Pepper would be groomed for, I could... okay, I would say 'die happy' except I would be unhappy, having to choose between yapping on LJ with you guys about this stuff and ACTUALLY WRITING.

From:

a) He seriously thinks it's a good thing that he's trying to kill Tony because Tony is too annoying to live.

YES. EXACTLY. I love that I just commented about this in your previous comment, then I get to gmail and it's like "HEY WAIT SHE'S ALREADY THERE" so now I feel like my comment was useless, BUT: the potential that Tony will realize that this is part of Obie's motivation is going to kill the little organ in what's left in his heart that allows him to trust anyone.

b) He seriously thinks on some level that Pepper would agree with him-- or, more, that after another ten years of Tony, Pepper would agree with him.

AND I CAN TOTALLY SEE HIM THINKING THAT. Especially how comfortable they looked in the scene with the pizza. They looked so...companionable. He was playing her music while she worked, one of only a few people that understood that this is how Tony copes: making and breaking things in the lab. I imagine Friends of Tony find it hard to connect with anyone else, because taking care of Tony is basically their whole lives, and it's got to be nice to have people who understand how it is. Like Obie and Pepper.

c) OH MY GOD, NOW I NEED TO WRITE MORE OF THESE TWO BECAUSE HE SO TOTALLY WILL WANT TO MENTOR HER. IT'S LIKE JACK DONAUGHY AND LIZ LEMON.

OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU. That's...that's even more amazing and crackier than Lindsay Lohan and Tony doing blow off the suit.

oh, and you'll see that; please pardon the mess at my journal

I saw that. I was like "God, I'm going to have so many fun things to read when I get home." and then I realized I was spending all my work doing this and that I'll never actually get home at this rate and oh, damn you all for producing excellent meta and fic. Damn yooooooou.

From:

YES. EXACTLY. I love that I just commented about this in your previous comment, then I get to gmail and it's like "HEY WAIT SHE'S ALREADY THERE" so now I feel like my comment was useless,

NO, it proves that we are on the same wavelength and that is MORE PRECIOUS THAN DIAMONDS.

BUT: the potential that Tony will realize that this is part of Obie's motivation is going to kill the little organ in what's left in his heart that allows him to trust anyone.

I am going to counter that by saying that Pepper, given her tendencies to protect Tony from everything, would undoubtedly do everything in her power to make sure he NEVER, EVER FINDS OUT. She would lie about him saying crazy things and catching fish out of the koi pond like Golem and laughing inappropriately at dead pigeons. Oh yes.

Especially how comfortable they looked in the scene with the pizza. They looked so...companionable. He was playing her music while she worked,

I know! (Salieri, too, which is too hilarious for words.) The fact that he's the only person to play that piano in the whole show is so phenomenal, and he was doing it as his way of hanging out with Pepper! I so totally have to use that.

I imagine Friends of Tony find it hard to connect with anyone else, because taking care of Tony is basically their whole lives, and it's got to be nice to have people who understand how it is. Like Obie and Pepper.

HAHAHAHA yes, my whole fic is probably built on that. Rhodey most definitely included. I am going to be hard pressed to have Rhodey and Pepper not make out at some point, and honestly I think it would still be a really good idea because, dude, he's HOT. But yes, yes, a thousand times yes: it is a SPECIALIZED THING. Only three people in the world know how to handle Tony. THREE.

OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU. That's...that's even more amazing and crackier than Lindsay Lohan and Tony doing blow off the suit.

HAHAHAHAHA. A winner is meeee! I am so glad that somebody else reacted that way. SO GLAD. ::wipes brow::

Heeeee! Okay, go work. I will be around. I am going to eat dinner and then get some more writing done, because I need to hash out what to do next with ~~Jack and Liz~~ Obadiah and Pepper, now that my original plan for them has gone completely out the window. COMPLETELY.

From:

Don't mind me. I'm just kicked back thoroughly enjoying this thread. Some things I hadn't really thought about before. (Now I need to go see the movie again. Heh.)

From:

He wants Tony's control of Stark Industries

But! I found it so fascinating that Tony said "we own controlling interest" ... and seemed to include Pepper, though he probably just meant himself and Obie. So it would seem that Obie, of course, wants it all to himself. And therefore if Pepper was included in Tony's statement, then Obie would either have to take control over her or kill her too. (Wow! I hadn't thought of that before.)

I also had a fascination with her sitting there on the couch working - or pretending to work - on her laptop while Tony and Obie talked. Like she was (used to) being Tony's buffer or watchdog or something. And how pissed Tony got when she seemed to side with Obie twice. In fact, he was looking at her when he said "Screw this" and got up to leave.

From:

Aha. I actually read that as being "we" in the sense of "yeah, I hold the shares, but I wubbbb you guys,s o you are on Team Tony, too!"

To which Pepper eyerolls and Obie carefully hides the shank.

From:

Hee! Okay, I like that hand-wave. A lot. :^D

From:

I also had a fascination with her sitting there on the couch working - or pretending to work - on her laptop while Tony and Obie talked.

Shallow sidenote: Pepper's little stretch-and-yawn in the background during Tony's little stomp off was adorable.

From:

::gape::

YOU ARE PHENOMENAL. Do not get fired. THIS IS GENIUS.

Enough so that if he wanted to, he could make Butterfingers to the Board.

You are making me think terrible things about Caligula now and I can see the TONY STARK, EMPEROR OF ROME thing spinning out in front of me. Except instead of his favorite horse, his favorite robotic arm. OF COURSE.

That's what Obediah has to be out for, even more than the life insurance and inheriting Pepper as his PA.

You will have no idea why I'm laughing so hard at this, but I actually was writing a whole mumblesheet today on Obadiah and his thoughts on Pepper Potts. So this made me giggle. ANYWAY MOVING ON.

My point being that considering that my parents, the midwestern public school teachers, could get that sort of thing set up (they don't understand it, but they like it!), I am completely and totally positive that you're right about the trust. And that is FANTASTIC.

There'd definitely be shenangans with holding and shell companies named ludicrously funny things.

Oh God. Now I'm wracking my brain for funny shell company names. I mean, it would be one thing if it as TONY naming them, but Obadiah is a man who rides a Segway NON-IRONICALLY.

From: