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May. 26th, 2008 01:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
quigonejinnFreedom Hangs Like Heaven.
Iron Man set to Iron and Wine.
20MB, XviD or play in VLC
I'm going to end up recutting this when the DVD comes up because right now, there's this CERTAIN SCENE where SOME FUCKING DOUCHEBAG decides to HANG HIS FUCKING HAND off the side of the CAMERA and then some other asshole walks across andf;lkjgdf. I couldn't figure out a way to cut around it, so that scene sucks. And there's one bit where Rhodey is a talking head, but I figured that I've wasted a week of my life already on this.
So yes. Iron Man and Iron and Wine with Calexico production. And just ignore the fact that they use the wrong reign/reins on that Forbes cover. XD
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Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 02:50 pm (UTC)I think it no coincidence that this comment (and no other) popped into my email twice. Hee!
Also, thank you.
I'm not sure if I'm totally convinced that Tony only came back because of Obediah
Probably not totally because of, no. But Tony probably started using the word "harangue" long before he hired Pepper.
Tony: This is haranguement.
Pepper: I- What?
Tony: Haranguement. I should be able to sue you for that. Probably ...
Pepper: That's not a word. And ...
Tony: ... put you in jail. Then ...
Pepper: ... you cannot sue me for it. If it ...
Tony: ... I could smuggle a file in so ...
Pepper: ... was a word, then it's in my contract ...
Tony: ... you could escape and run away with me.
Pepper: ... because that's what you hired me to do. What?
Tony: [smirks]
Get a cheeseburger, have a press conference, and then go back to a better equipped cave. With cheeseburgers.
Ha! And a prettier assistant.
Obediah had to hold off on whacking Tony
Oh, seriously. He couldn't kill, maim, or otherwise majorly impair the golden goose. But he could control the golden goose. Cajole it and clip its wings without it realizing what was happening.
I wonder, though, why Obediah chose then to do it. Was Tony getting too out of control? Too caught up in the addictions? Or was he finally wanting more of the pie than Obie was willing to dole out? Did he think there was no way to top the Jericho?
the probable age difference between O and Howard Stark
Yeah, I saw that. And it makes some painful sense. And with Tony still so young, Obie not only wasn't the favored "son" but was left to be the nursemaid. It had to rankle. Beeg time.
God, I love this stage of fandom.
Like I said before, stepping into these kinds of discussions is like finding my people! Especially with the messed up psychological stuff. It's so my thing.
If you ever have suggestions or comments or "uh, that's a really embarrassing typo" after the fact, though, totally leave me a comment or whatever.
No problemo. I'm totally okay with being a retro-beta. ;^)
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 03:19 pm (UTC)I wonder, though, why Obediah chose then to do it. Was Tony getting too out of control? Too caught up in the addictions? Or was he finally wanting more of the pie than Obie was willing to dole out? Did he think there was no way to top the Jericho?
Yeah, that's an interesting line of inquiry. To me, logically, there are a couple of broad categories for explanations -- either something specifically happened to me O want to axe T at that point, or it was in the plans all along to axe T once Stark Industries got to a certain point. Or, O has been trying to axe Tony for a while, but assassination is tricky business. (Muscle issues, I'm guessing? It ain't easy finding somebody discreet who'll do the dirty deed. Apparently, there's an in-joke somewhere in the plane bit referring to an effort that Comics-O made against Tony.)
All of them work for me as a writer, but the "something happened" requires invention of that something, and it needs to be damn convincing. The "Company is strong enough to survive w/out Tony" has the benefit of fitting with corporate thinking, but you do have to do proper fore-grounding buildup for why O is such a bloodless bastard. One of the weak points of the movie was, for me, how they never really explained O's motivations.
And as for the "wanted to, but couldn't execute" has two subcategories -- one is because of incompetence, and the other is because of lack of technical expertise.
Hm. It's an open field, and there's definitely, definitely room for more than one fic there.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 07:16 pm (UTC)"For years I've been holding you up... I've built this company for NOTHING! And nothing's going to stand in my way. Least of all you."
I... I have no idea what that last line means, so, never mind that, but I can hash out that a) O thinks he's the one who built the company, and from a purely business standpoint that's probably exactly true, and b) he's really resentful of Tony, seems to feel like Tony is the weak link somehow. It's like some kind of weird corporate political gamesmanship: who's responsible for the success of the company, the businessman or the idea man? Clearly, Obadiah thinks it's the businessman, i.e. himself.
Which gives me an idea: okay, so Stark Industries is clearly created by Tony's father after WWII. Obadiah is younger than Stark, so he wouldn't be on the scene then. Could it be that Stark was not a great businessman, either-- just an idea man? who stumbled along in business keeping the company barely afloat? And that Stane came on the scene and made the place a success in the late fifties or early sixties?
THAT would explain a lot about his attitude. Why he's chosen to kill Tony, though, is a whole 'nother ball of wax, but clearly he does see him as useful but expendable.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 07:33 pm (UTC)The "O lost his goddamn mind" theme is probably the one that coheres the best with movie canon (and the scatterbrained ???? PROFIT model you posited up above), but man. I have to say it doesn't offer much meat for writing.
Though, OK. I totally dig your idea that Stark Sr. blew as a businessman and that the firm didn't really take off until Obediah stepped in. The novelization suggests that Stark Sr's major contributions were manufacturing, not in R&D, so it makes sense that they might struggle to redefine themselves. And it explains why Stark Sr. might mount a full-court press of OMG MY SON IS A GENIUS as a PR kinda thing as part of re-trenching. And coheres with that line about how nobody has made advances in arc reactor tech since the 1970s.
And it's been pointed out among the original participants o' doom that maybe, Daddy Stark and Obediah had been dealing under the table together.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 08:30 pm (UTC)Yeah, I know. It annoys me. I am currently going with the theory that he was doing great up until Pepper ratted him out, at which point his grip on reality got chopped off real fast, and he was like "well, fine, if I'm going down YOU ARE ALL GOING WITH ME." And went for the suit.
Though, OK. I totally dig your idea that Stark Sr. blew as a businessman and that the firm didn't really take off until Obediah stepped in.
Oh yay! Because as long as something explains the psychology behind it, I am happy to handwave other specifics. I am also digging on
So on this one, Obadiah is like "okay, fucker, this business isn't getting away from me this time". I AM OUT ON A LIMB.
And it's been pointed out among the original participants o' doom that maybe, Daddy Stark and Obediah had been dealing under the table together.
That one fascinates me, particularly given the murky politics of the late Cold War era; I can totally see this happening in the 70s and 80s. And ARGH now I have to go home from work and will be back in on this probably later, but I will ponder on the train. Daddy Stark being a lot less clean than Tony thinks: AWESOME.
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 08:52 pm (UTC)True. But thinking about, I'd posit the idea that that temporary paralysis device could very well have contributed to his demise. I mean, that thing made people's ears bleed! It was very bad! And while the little earbuds Obie wore protected him from the overt effects, it might not have protected him as well as he thought. (Wonder how many other times he used it.)
And it explains why Stark Sr. might mount a full-court press of OMG MY SON IS A GENIUS as a PR kinda thing as part of re-trenching.
Yeah. And sad for Tony, that. Because that kind of attention just ain't good for a kiddo.
And it's been pointed out among the original participants o' doom that maybe, Daddy Stark and Obediah had been dealing under the table together.
That just ... that's just painful to think about. I wonder if Tony's had a chance, yet, to have that thought bubble find its way through the quicksand in his head. Or if that's something his psyche just wouldn't allow. And if Dad did, then may that secret RIP with Obediah, because Tony doesn't need that on top of everything else. (That kind of knowledge would certainly nudge more scotch his way.)
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 08:41 pm (UTC)"For years I've been holding you up... I've built this company for NOTHING! And nothing's going to stand in my way. Least of all you."
Actually, I think I can twist it around into a little sense (an appropriately placed "now" would have made it all so clearer -heh-). For thirty years he's built the company but who gets the glory? Tony. Now he's going to take what's duly his, and if no one else can kill Tony, he will. (Okay, that's my take at trying to make sense out of a madman's words. Ha!)
who's responsible for the success of the company, the businessman or the idea man? Clearly, Obadiah thinks it's the businessman, i.e. himself.
Or ... Obie thought he had pulled together a team of truly crack scientists/engineers who could do what Tony does (oh yeah right, like there could be two Nikola Teslas living in one lifetime?) and could, therefore, toast the Tone. And of course when they failed him so spectacularly toward the end with not only not being able to miniaturize the arc reactor but saying it was impossible, he jumped the
Stshark to uberebil.Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 09:00 pm (UTC)Oooh! I like that! The straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. "HE BUILT THIS IN A CAVE. FROM A BUNCH OF SCRAPS." He probably as under no illusions that together they were as smart as Tony, but he thought they were good enough, and to find out that even with excessive planning (maybe killing Howard was a whim, and the second time around he promised himself he'd cover all the bases just to be sure) that he still failed to account for all the variables probably just drove him to want to literally take the situation into his own hands. Big metal ones. With guns on the end of 'em. 'Cause I don't know about you, but when I think of Stark Industries, the first thing that comes to my mind is "subtlety." Right?
(also, "toast the Tone" just makes me lol in general. heeee.)
Re: second time through = golden. i'm thinking about going time #3.
Date: 2008-05-29 10:28 pm (UTC)Seriously, I have been saying that full-time for two weeks about every piece of equipment I own. "TONY STARK MADE THIS IN A CAVE. FROM A BOX OF SCRAPS." It feels so nice to yell about my cell phone this way.
But YES to both you guys, YES YES YES. Maybe he thought that having LOTS of smart scientists was the equivalent of having ONE Tony Stark! Because... well, he's a businessman, he doesn't know how engineering things work.