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quigonejinn- I will not try to write like CS Forester. He managed to pull off the style of the Hornblower books, particularly with the earlier (IE: written later) books, but I am not him, and I will not pretend to be. He has an amazing grasp of plot and symbolism; he knows Hornblower inside and out. I'm not going to pretend to any of that. Trying will just make my writing suck.
- I will not make Horatio a habitual drinker. He likes his wine, particularly towards the end of the books, but really, guys, having him shout about how he needs a drink or, really, any kind of thing where it's not like SERVANT WHERE ARE MY TROUSERS *BELLOWS LIKE IT IS THE QUARTERDECK* is utterly unHornbloweresque.
- I will not make Horatio some kind of sexual naif. Sure, there's been both good and hot (and some that was both XD) wfic ritten about that Bush/Archie/Pellew/Mrs. Mason XD educating him or whatever, but really, what gives rise to that sort of thing? In the movies, you can at least claim that the awkwardness of the kiss or whatever with The French Chick and how he NOBLY SITS BY HER BEDSIDE, but what about in the books, where he cheats on his wife? (interesting that we'd hear so much about him cheating on Barbara but not MARIA O.O) And, like, manages to get Maria pregnant in the course of two days. Also uh, you know. When a Navy man talks about "debauch" on shore leave, he's not talking about getting to stay up and play tiddlywinks.
And I'm not convinced that Horatio didn't nail Mariette then and there. Plenty of guys who've nailed chicks suck at foreplay. I mean, jeez. If being awkward with foreplay = no play, then teenagers would never have sex. Also, you just have to wonder what they possibly have been doing that tuckered her out so badly. And how did they pass all that time? Really, guys. There's a reason that the Victorians looked back on that Horatio-ish period as being something of a DEPRAVED AGE.
- I will not make Horatio less complicated and prickly and difficult than he is. Sure, he has himself better in hand when he's a Commodore/Admiral, and sure, he's much friendlier when he's a Lieutenant, but the same demons drive him in either case. De-pricklifying him changes him from who he is.
- I will not make Hornblower some kind of apologetic snobby wimp. He might be liberal; he might be opposed to capital punishment, but he is, at heart, a stiff, tough relentlessly practical man who is, at times, a Machiavellian prince in how he seizes virtu and makes Fortuna his bitch.
- I will not make Horatio dumber than he is.
- I will not make Bush smarter than he is.
- I will not put out like Horatio treated Bush horribly. Sure, he didn't treat Bush like he was the bestestest friend that he was, and sure, he lashed out at Bush a lot when he was under stress, but really, Bush is a tough motherfucker. He learned, long ago, that Horatio had snitfests and knew, decades before Horatio realized that he knew, exactly when Horatio was having one of his freakfests. Look at the bit in Lieutenant Hornblower where Horatio is buying stuff with Maria's half-crown. Bush doesn't know the emotional genesis of Horatio'mccs snitfit, but he recognizes it for what it is.
Also, even more relevantly: they were captain-and-first-lieutenant. Bush did get some rough treatment, but there's that line in Flying Colours where Horatio tells himself that he's treating Bush worse than he'd treat a dog and that Bush just came slinking back time and time again -- and Forester tips his hand by telling us that Horatio's real shortcoming with regards to Bush is not crediting him with enough perspicacity.
- I will never, ever have Horatio apologize with words to anybody but, say, Maria and Lady Barbara. And he will never, ever, ever, ever actually mean it in a true, lasting way when he verbally apologizes to Maria. I do not care if he does apologize more in the books -- yes, there is that part where he apologizes to Bush for taking Cotard to shore on the mission, but really, look at how that apology is structured. That apology doesn't make him look weaker. It isn't an actual admission of guilt or the sort of moral failing that Hornblower actually gets his man-panties into a twist about.
Furthermore, all of that notwithstanding, this fandom has already had enough apologizing. Half the fics in the fandom have to do with apologies, and yes, some of them are actually really good fics, but really. There is no point in hashing over what's already been done. I'm not writing anything that anybody wants to read if I do that.
- I will not blame the fact that Horatio fucks around on his wife on "marital difficulties" nor will I give him guilt or give others compunctions about this that he doesn't have. I mean, when he does it, he does it like he's entitled to it, kthxbai. Does he show even the faintest drop of remorse after doing the Countess? Or with Marie? The notion of Barbara and Marie meeting makes him squirm like a bitch, but there isn't actual guilt about it. Hello, inspiration for James T. Kirk here.
Also note:
- I will not prettify up Horatio's relationship with Barbara -- Maria was completely right when she says that she doesn't think Horatio, as he existed up until that point, was capable of loving any woman.
And the last sentence of Lord Hornblower is fairly horrifying, yo. I will remember it particularly when trying to go and write about Horatio's shiny golden retirement.
- I will not make Bush messy/slovenly. Setting aside Bush's rabid detail hardon, I will remember of the times in Lieutanant Hornblowerwhere Bush mentally notes that somebody is disheveled or not dressed up to standards? One of the first things that Bush note, on meeting Hornblower, is that Horatio looks like he got dressed in the dark and hadn't fixed things sincethen. Just because a man isn't vain doesn't mean that he's messy -- for Bush, it's pretty clear that orderly presentation = discipline and discipline = good. "We'll show them how a BRITISH crew behaves."
Portrayals of Bush's quarters will show them to be neat and tidy and not decorated -- notice the little recitation of furniture he has before he goes to bed that one night on the Renown.
- I will not have any goddamn seaman give a long flowery speeches. Remember all the parts in the books where Horatio feels as though he ought to make a speech for the men, but settles, instead, for a one-liner? Or where Bush is like :/ :/ :/ at himself for not being able to express what he feels in words? These are men who write stories with their actions, not their words. Horatio, in particular, has almost physical difficulty expressing what he feels. It's a fundamental characteristic of his personality.
- On that note: I will not make seamen talk like they're straight out of a Georgette Heyer novel.
- I will not make Edrington a big fucking pussy. Sure, he might have a life of >> leisure compared to the Royal Navy guys. Sure, he's landed and titled nobility and all that and probably a profligate waste and rake and a man on the ton and all those other things that people write him as being, but there's this scene at the end of the short story Frogs and Lobsters where, rather than let the French take his mount as a prize, he calmly dismounts, borrows a musket from one of his men, and blows his horse's brains out.
I know that he wouldn't have looked at his animal the way that I would have (horsie worsy <3_<3) and it would have been a tool for him, but consider the sort of steadiness you would have had to do that. The kind of presence of mind, the calculation, the steadiness, and a certain willingness to get your own hands dirty.
Even if we're just going with the movie, think about his opening remarks to Horatio, and think, too, about that scene of him forming up the 95th Foot with their backs to deep blue sea. If the Indy hadn't shown up then (IE: if Pellew hadn't hauled ass), they would have died on the beach. Edrington would have been on his horse, and his troops would have been ground to pieces against the water.
When writing Edrington, I will make sure to include an element of dirty, nasty, unpretty hardness in him.
- I will include enough about the sea and life at sea. Most fanfiction isn't about life at the sea, which makes sense -- most people are drawn in by the characters and not the setup, but I think that there's a lot of stuff that could be done with the sea, particularly with Bush and Horatio. His life is at sea. Remember the part in Flying Colours where the thought that he's seeing the sea for the last time in his life? And for Bush, the closest he comes to introspection is when he's standing on deck; he gets physical pleasure from being out in a storm at sea, and there's that part where in Lt. Hornblower where the thing that sets him off on his mad desperate charge is not the fact htat he's been shamed or that the crew is dead oranything like that.
Instead, it's that his "magnificent ship" is gone, and really, can you see book!Bush calling anything else in his entire life magnificent or beautiful? He even likes is girls "pretty and saucy," and not "beautiful" in the regular sense ofthe word. The only way we know that he knows the word glorious is when he uses it to describe an element of battle to Hornblower.
Thus, in short:
- I am not CS Forester, and I won't try to be.
- I will not make Horatio nice, earnest, straightforward, or completely virginal.
- I will not make Horatio dumb.
- I will never write Horatio as an angst-puppy.
- I will never, ever write Horatio as an apologetic angst-puppy.
- I will not make Bush smart.
- I will not make Bush messy. Ever.
- Nobody under the rank of commodore besides Pellew will make a speech. Ever.
- I will make Horatio as ruthlessly virtu-filled and compulsively driven as he can be.
- I will never write Edrington without including also showing his hardness and his snobbery.
- The Navy or life in the British Navy or, at a bare minimum, the sea will always be near the heart of my stories. Otherwise, I might as well write about Captain Pfeffensperger and Lieutenant Spangleglocken sailing on the HMS Debutante Ball Cocksucker on the plains of Sussex.
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-15 12:14 am (UTC)*memories*
Hi, btw... here via
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-15 01:00 am (UTC)*offers up fruit basket, shoves dead bodies under couch, also tries to pretend that she hasn't been skulking around the Scriptorium and obsessively reading everthing on there for weeks now*
I write okay and now I really must learn to type
Date: 2006-01-15 03:46 am (UTC)Hah, BUSTED!
*eats all the mangoes, drags the corpses out to the rose garden for you, demands to know what you thought of the stories and stuff*
<3 I am the queen of terrible typos.
Date: 2006-01-15 04:26 am (UTC)Off the top of my head and not really even entirely directed to Marna-work because I never made notes since I was terrified of e-mailing any of the people on there because OMGZ YOU ARE ALL SO SMART, and only about the HH stuff:
And on the other hand. O.O Hello, ow, excuse me, why do I have such a thing for Edrington taking it? Why?
So in short: the writing makes me dizzy with goodness, the Bush/Edrington makes me absolutely incapable of coherent thought, I wish you would write HH/Sandman stuff, and I really need to watch Master and Commander and POTC so that I can really understand the fic.
*deftly reassembles the poor exploded fangirl*
Date: 2006-01-15 04:38 am (UTC)Only two pineapples?
*brings over a few more*
And on the other hand. O.O Hello, ow, excuse me, why do I have such a thing for Edrington taking it?
There are people who don't. I have heard. But it's just rumours.
*blushes and stammers incoherently with glee and suspects based on the things you like so far that you will like the upcoming stuff*
Re: *deftly reassembles the poor exploded fangirl*
Date: 2006-01-19 01:07 am (UTC)I was attempting to be charming and make a reference to this one bit in Lieutenant Hornblower, but uh. Yeah, not with the smooth over here. XD
Edrington is just a vastly intruiging character. He's an awful lot of fun in the movies -- particularly that @)#(*@) bit where he practically sprints up to the quarterdeck to talk to Pellew -- and someday, I'll know enough about the British aristocracy of that period to write about book!Edrington.
And :D I await more AKTM with all of my fangirly heart. Particularly if it's going to include more Sandman OMG. What I'd give to see Bush have a little chat with Desire. Or, really, Horatio to have one with hir because I've been itching to see more Horatio in that series.
Wink wink hint hint nudge.
Re: *deftly reassembles the poor exploded fangirl*
Date: 2006-01-19 01:25 am (UTC)particularly that @)#(*@) bit where he practically sprints up to the quarterdeck to talk to Pellew
And that whole "FINE, Edward, I'll look after him for you, but did you HAVE to make it look like he's supposed to look after ME?" routine. Liason. Horatio. Who then spends the whole ep with Edrington practically sitting on him to make him stop saying shit.
Which is how we ended up concluding that if those two didn't know each other, we'd eat a gorget each.
Sandman was, alas, a one-shot, but if you follow the links back, Nanni did a couple as well. And there's no saying you can't -- it's a great crossover.
Bush/Destruction?
They'd BUILD THINGS. I pant to see this.
Re: *deftly reassembles the poor exploded fangirl*
Date: 2006-01-19 02:29 am (UTC)And Barnabas! :D And Destruction offering to cook Bush dinner, but Bush shaking his di;lfhglkj. Oh man. :D
You should write this. *weeps*
By the way...
Date: 2006-01-16 03:13 am (UTC)*coff*
Re: I write okay and now I really must learn to type
Date: 2006-01-15 04:27 am (UTC)But hello, how much can I not finish sentences properly?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-16 08:31 am (UTC)And yay for making your head explode btw ;)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-16 05:44 pm (UTC)In bookverse, he beats himself up about his inadequacies. In movie verse, he has to, you know, talk about them to someone cause it's a movie and we don't get to read his mind.
But, yeah. He's sorry. Sorriest goddamned thing ever, but that doesn't mean he'll change.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-19 01:09 am (UTC)It fills me with terrible, terrible glee.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-15 04:14 pm (UTC)man, that song really does fit him, doesn't it? *_*
Date: 2006-01-15 05:31 pm (UTC)He's too brilliant and steady and lucky, y'know? He learns too well from his mistakes, he has a very healthy sense of humor, and he really just is a decent, amazing, totally awesome kind of guy.
Which, me being me, results in T_T sure, I want to marry you and have your babies and knit you hysterically enormous gloves, but can't I have a series of torrid one night stands with your evil twin brother first? T_T
And yes. Naive fanon Horatio. :/
Re: man, that song really does fit him, doesn't it? *_*
Date: 2006-01-15 05:45 pm (UTC)Re: man, that song really does fit him, doesn't it? *_*
Date: 2006-01-19 01:13 am (UTC)*loves on your icon*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-15 04:40 pm (UTC)*stalks all over your LJ*
*enjoys the stalking v. much*
Date: 2006-01-15 05:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-21 09:39 pm (UTC)(and get your damned arse back online woman cos we have STUFF to sort out!!!! *dies all over again*)
Will you marry me? :-P