(no subject)

[quigonejinn]

Stronger (Harder, Better, Faster)

Tony Stark set to Kanye West and Daft Punk
XVid, 35MB

The song is on my default playlist, and last week, in the throes of full-blown fandom crazy, I started obsessing about what a fantastic track this would make for an Iron Man vid. And then one of the DOOMTHREADS -- it is 4:30AM, and I am too brainfried to figure out where, even with Gmail's halfway decent search engine -- somebody mentioned wanting to see it. And uh. I was too tired to write tonight, so here! HAVE MY OBSESSION.

Started at 10PM or so of Friday night, finished around 4AM of Saturday morning. Not much in the way of movie-independent storytelling, which is probably why it came together so easily. It usually takes me about eight hours per minute, but I banged this together in way, way under that. Think more like a 5:20 recap of the movie than anything else.

Comments

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

Tony took them into the full-size bathroom behind the fulls-size bedroom in the back. Because it's not really Mile High unless you're doing it in the bathroom.

BECAUSE IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING. OF COURSE. Fully stocked with the Stark Industry wet wipes, naturally (and a "no smoking sign" just for show.)

Oh, Tony. You're thinking about Dad again, aren't you? It would be sweet if you weren't doing it while looking at strippers.

SEE THE SAD THING IS, I TOTALLY KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. I mean, sure, first time around I LOLed so hard the boyfriend had to slap my back (this happened again with the Segway o' Doom, but I digress), but the second-100 times I started to appreciate the scene because it's one of the only times we get some great Rhodey insight, that he can feel just as strongly about the army as Tones does about machines. He's just as capable of feeling passionate about something as Tony, just with the self control to tone it down in polite company, something Tony TOTALLY lacks.

(also, I love the idea of Rhodey as one of those talky drunks, like in college where everyone has DEEP THOUGHTS whenever the beer is flowing. It's adorable.)

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR ON THIS:

this happened again with the Segway o' Doom, but I digress

I STILL WANT THAT T-SHIRT.

it's one of the only times we get some great Rhodey insight, that he can feel just as strongly about the army as Tones does about machines

It really is. And there's just something so sweet about the fact that Rhodey talks about the military like that when he's drunk. In fact, I'd almost venture to say that he feels more strongly the military than Tony does -- yeah, Tony is obsessed and fascinated and probably kisses his suit good night, but I'm not sure that he really honestly loves machines. I can't articulate it very clearly, but I don't think he gets that feeling of belonging. It seems like they feed more into his need for control, and his efforts to humanize the Butterfingers & Dummy and to give Jarvis a personality are kind of attempt to do that? But he's not there yet.

God, Rhodey in college, on top of a roof, drinking $100 a bottle whiskey bought by sixteen year old Tony Because He Could, would have been hilarious.

Also: it makes me want somebody who is GIFTED WITH DIALOGUE to write Rhodey, like, defending Tony to somebody (probably his Mom Rhodey) and talking about what a patriot he is.

Also: it makes me want to write about Tony trying to figure out what the names of those kids in the HumVee with him were because he feels like he ought to apologize to their parents or something, but being way, way, way too freaked out about the whole experience to ask Pepper to do it. And you know, he doesn't. Because.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

Also: it makes me want to write about Tony trying to figure out what the names of those kids in the HumVee with him were

OH MY GOD. FUNNY THAT YOU SHOULD SAY THAT.

I...I tried writing a little of that the moment I got home the first time around, because OH. How quickly he sort of bonded with them. I think it ties back to what you said before, about how Tony loves working machines because it feeds into his issues of control, not necessarily the machines themselves.

I can't articulate it very clearly, but I don't think he gets that feeling of belonging.

And that's what really touched me about the funvee scene, and how HAPPY he looked that he could make them laugh like that. Like most comedians, Tony has very low self-esteem, he assures himself of his worth by seeking approval from others - from his dad with his machines, to the soldiers in the funvee by making them laugh. He thinks if he performs, if they respond, maybe it's a sign he belongs.

He has yet to realize there's an inherent barrier between the performer and the audience, and he keeps running up against it and feeling like he's failing somehow, so he keeps trying, keeps making himself slightly larger than life with each effort, only managing to further set himself apart, further alienate himself.

You are making me sadface. Stoooooop.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

GREAT MINDS. CLEARLY.

How quickly he sort of bonded with them.

It makes me think, also, that his employees really and honestly do like him -- and not just, you know. Pepper and Happy, whose contracts say that they have to. I mean, it's easy to pass off the applause and shit when the Phantom pulls up company headquarters and Obie does WHAT WE SUBSEQUENTLY REALIZE IS a dog and pony show with the hug and so forth, but the soldiers love him! They're fanboying him, and Tony is totally joking and pleased as punch. It's, like, the biggest, shiniest smile he has in the whole movie that's inspired by people and not, you know. A machine. Or being Iron Man.

And he tries really hard to make people like him. And they do. Which makes me dream about Tony at the Stark plant in, like, I don't know. Tennessee. In a hard hat, charming the living pants off welders who work on the fuselages of Jericho missiles and surprising them by how neatly he can do [insert complicated weld]

And yeah. Tony Stark. So totally a performance. In the "36 Hours Before" segment, it's pure Tony Stark performance until he starts talking to Everhart about his Dad and, more clearly, when he's down in the shop with the music blasting and NOT TALKING AT ALL.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

...it's pure Tony Stark performance until he starts talking to Everhart about his Dad and, more clearly, when he's down in the shop with the music blasting and NOT TALKING AT ALL.

Oh, that hit the spot. I think you articulated perfectly the difference between Public!Tony and Private!Tony, and Pepper probably sees, or feels unconsciously a little of that too -- his close friends realize the difference, and it probably is what allows them to forgive him over, and over, and over again, even at the detriment to themselves. They see him trying so hard, and yeah, it's all a little "poor little rich boy" but they can't really help themselves. He's got everything, even the ability to hire and build his own friends, and he's epically, obviously lonely.

...but I'm off, somewhere in there, I'm definitely missing something. He's not simply lonely, there control issues complicate it somewhat, because I think the loneliness is in part the result of the unwillingness to lose said control, it's self-inflicted far more than just the result of being a child prodigy and being born into money.

And he tries really hard to make people like him. And they do. Which makes me dream about Tony at the Stark plant in, like, I don't know. Tennessee.

Oh, please, please write that. I can see that happening sometime after Pepper just started, like, after her first week where she's ready to quit every other minute, constantly questioning herself for agreeing to take a job that is impossible for the sheer fact that Tony doesn't actually follow anything that she says, doesn't seem to respect anyone other than JARVIS, and never, ever seems to shut up despite having nothing of import to say.

But by the end of the week, she manages to get him to the factory like she promised the board, and despite all the frustration and supreme human effort it took to get him there, watching him work over the torch, finally silent, probably the first time she actually gets him, if not completely, then enough to get her into the next week, or until she can find a better job.

(and this cycle will wash and repeat for weeks, then months, then years, until Afghanistan, and then it's too late to quit then, because now it's more than a job, it's family, and that's something far more dangerous.)

(oh. Pep. You should have gotten out while you can.)

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

re: lonely Tony...

I'm not sure he even realizes he's lonely. Maybe not until Yinsen calls him on it. I think his loneliness is totally unconscious, and he fills it with all that flash and wanting people to like him and strippers.

and it is about control. Because if he lets up on the control, people will see him as he is underneath all the flash, and we can't have that, now, can we?

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Man. I just realized that at the end of the movie, with Obie dead, Rhodey is the person still in Tony's life who's known him the longest. And they didn't meet until Tony went to college.

I might be old-fashioned, but man, that's just fucked up.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

No, you're absolutely right, and that's a terribly lonely place to be. And I think New Improved Post Afghanistan Tony Stark isn't going to be able to pretend it's not there quite as well as he had in the past. Especially if/when he runs into conflict with Rhodey and Pepper, which is inevitable.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Especially if/when he runs into conflict with Rhodey and Pepper, which is inevitable.

Especially with Rhodey. Christ. CAN OF WORMS, GUYS. CAN OF WORMS. WHAT WAS THAT 10 YEAR, BILLION-DOLLAR DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT YOU SIGNED LAST SEPTEMBER, TONES?

Yeah, I keep wanting fic where Yinsen (heresy!) survives Tony's origination story. I don't know how that fic would play out, but man, it really seems as though Tony would be in a Better Place if he had a third emotional pillar or whatever.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[besyd.livejournal.com]

And I was thinking today while watching that after Rhodey dumped him so spectacularly in the hangar, Tony craves attention so much that he would never bring that scene up and just go on like nothing had happened. ('Course, in the workshop he had a sum total of about one thing on his mind, but still.)

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

also, on a totally meta level, this description of Tony

...it's pure Tony Stark performance until he starts talking to Everhart about his Dad and, more clearly, when he's down in the shop with the music blasting and NOT TALKING AT ALL.

is totally RDJ's speciality. He manages to make the silences his characters go through as much a characterization moment than what comes out of their mouths, if not more so. That's frikking talent.

(edited because the english language, it has left me)

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

is totally RDJ's speciality.

Oh man. He's so good at it. And Jon Favreau is so good at working with him. I mean, I keep trying to figure out just how RDJ manages to be so effective in the bit when Obediah leaves him on the red carpet is so horribly sad or how RDJ manages to convey OMFG FURY AND REPRESSED EMOTION when he's fixing his arm, but about 0.15 seconds into it, I just get totally sucked in.

RDJ. HOW ARE YOU SO GOOD? AM I JUST THAT MUCH OF A FANGIRL? DON'T ANSWER THE LATTER.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

RDJ is freaking amazing. And he was fairly restrained in Iron Man. I mean, at least I wasn't scared for the man's sanity while watching this one.

He is amazing at getting across very complex emotions with just his face and body language.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y'ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Tony is the most interesting mix of arrogance and, like, OMG PLZ LIKE ME. Seriously.

And I don't think it's as simple as Poor Little Rich Boy, not by a long shot. You're exactly right. A lot of his barriers are self-imposed -- I refuse to believe that every woman he's ever had a one night stand with was crazy. Even given the way he tends to pick up women, a decent number had to have been probably perfectly nice women who would have been decent girlfriends. But no, Tony doesn't even want to find out what they're like because who wants to wear their game face first thing in the morning?

Pre-Af Tony only interacts with people when he's wearing his game face, and his game face is an asshole. In fact, you can almost see him transitioning to a slightly more public version of himself when Pepper comes down into the shop.

(I have a pet theory that Tony blew off the Apogee Awards when he realized that they were going to do a mini-biog heavy on the CHILD FUCKING PRODIGY and INHERITOR OF DADDY'S MANTLE and MAGAZINE COVER BOY thing on top of Rhodey presenting the award. Sure, he's totally convinced of his utter brilliance and worthiness of being adored -- but at the same time, his Daddy issues totally predate Afg, and if he really is as emotionally shut down as we've been postulating and if he's aware of his performance, I can kind of imagine Tony not wanting to have it rubbed in his face, particularly if it's Rhodey, who called him the day that awful fucking news broke, who flew all the way from Denver to be there at the funeral, etc, etc. Too much potential emotional vulnerability in one place, guys.

It's the same kind of HEDONISM NOW PLZ avoidance that happens when Rhodey starts talking to him about why he loves the military.)

despite all the frustration and supreme human effort it took to get him there, watching him work over the torch, finally silent

Exactly. And in my head, there's a very real difference in which Tony charms the welders and how he's schmoozing, say, the president of Lockheed Martin, for whose new communications satellite Stark Industries could supply microassembly expertise. I like to think that Tony really does <3 the people in the funvee, but that he doesn't fundamentally care at all about the military-industrial complex wankers who are attending the Apogee Awards and could take his failure to show up as an insult.

I think Pepper would pick up on the difference.

Randomly: Is it wrong to want Everhart/Stark? Because I was watching the ending of the movie there, and she's the ONLY PERSON SITTING in the whole room, and you know that a huge part of why Tony came out of the Superhero Closet was to fuck with her in much the same way that he buys the Jackson Pollock just to fuck with Pepper. And, plus, I bet there was assigned seating. And there has to be a reason why a reporter for Vanity frickin' Fair, a magazine known for its hard-hitting coverage of daily events, is front an dcenter on this. I like to think that he has a tiny bit of proto-respect for her.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;#39;ALL.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

Pre-Af Tony only interacts with people when he's wearing his game face, and his game face is an asshole. In fact, you can almost see him transitioning to a slightly more public version of himself when Pepper comes down into the shop.

That's a great observation. I actually know a few people like Tony, and it's very, very hard to get beyond their game faces. They're always *on*, even when they don't want to be. It becomes habit, kind of instinctual, and sometimes they can't turn it off.

I have a pet theory that Tony blew off the Apogee Awards when he realized that they were going to do a mini-biog heavy on the CHILD FUCKING PRODIGY and INHERITOR OF DADDY'S MANTLE and MAGAZINE COVER BOY thing on top of Rhodey presenting the award.

I think this is a sound theory. In fact, it makes a hell of a lot of sense, because clearly he'd been there at some point, as there was an empty chair and half drunk glass of something or other next to Obie.

Okay, I totally agree that Pepper picks up on the difference, and that's why she's still there all these years later. She's the one who sees him like this the most, as she sees him actually working in the lab, and when he's working it's harder for him to wear the game face (notice he doesn't wear game face AT ALL when he's with Yinsen. Not once.

Also, yeah. I think Christine/Tony would be kind of hot, because he knows he can't really pull one over on her, but he'll just keep trying. And because she's awesome.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;#39;ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

notice he doesn't wear game face AT ALL when he's with Yinsen. Not once.

SHIT. I hadn't noticed that, but you're right. You're exactly right. How can you wear a game face when it isn't a game anymore? Shit.

... I was going to talk about how brilliant you are and how this is incredibly helpful to my cracky Yinsen story idea, but I see that you've already thought it through and put it to far better practical application than I would have thought of. :D NO FLYING ROBOTS. What does that mean? No battle to conclude the movie, probably, or SHIELD having to bring out the heavy artillery earlier.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;#39;ALL.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

It becomes habit, kind of instinctual, and sometimes they can't turn it off.

Which, I think, is why he drinks. He's not excessive yet, not in the film. Because the tech is still new, it still feeds into his "HOLY NEAT LOOK WHAT I MADE GUYS" portion of his brain, he still thinks it's the answer, and it still feels like it, for the moment. But the downtime after the announcement, after Obie, is going to wear the high a bit, and nothing after will really match, you know, that night because the variables will never be perfect for that sort of crisis again. Obie became a representation of what Tony no longer wants to be (complicit, manipulated, gullible), and directly responsible for those three months gone.

And he killed him using his big shiny suit he built himself. That's got to be a great feeling, it's got to be practically tangible. And the high from that will never going to last or be that good again.

So he'll keep chasing that high, and he'll never feel like he's achieved something as tangible as that first time, and he'll get more and more frustrated as he discovers one man really can't do everything, because now he's discovered "everything" no longer just includes him, and that's going to sting.

So he'll drink, because it's a way to turn off, it's a way to forcibly override his code, it's a hack to relax.

notice he doesn't wear game face AT ALL when he's with Yinsen. Not once.

I never even considered that. Wow.

I love you.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&#39;ALL.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

Is it wrong to want Everhart/Stark?

NO. I AM SO WITH YOU THERe, FOR THE EXACT REASONS YOU SAID.

I love her. So, so much. But we know this.

I like to think that he has a tiny bit of proto-respect for her.

Hee "proto-respect" to go along with his "proto-soul." Was that you that coined that? Because I love it and it never, ever gets old.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;#39;ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

I think it was, but swingchick coined proto-morals first to talk about how Tony doesn't reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly have a full ethical system in place. Just, you know. The beginnings of one.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;amp;#39;ALL.

[dafnap.livejournal.com]

re: the soldiers in the humvee

liviapenn just posted a fantastic Tony/Rhodey story that touches on a whole lot of what we were talking about: the soldiers in the humvee, Tony as the performance artist, etc.

Also?

IT IS SO GOOD.

So, um, there's that.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;amp;amp;#39;ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

OH GOD. Excuse me, I'm going to eat my soul out with envy now. SHE DID IT. SHE WROTE THE FIC THAT LKJD:FLKJDGLKJDF.

Man, it's good.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;amp;#39;ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

SHIT. I JUST READ IT AGAIN. IT IS SO FUCKING GOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;amp;#39;ALL.

[besyd.livejournal.com]

Totally agreed. And thank you for the rec!

(Proof positive that the hive-mind can make things appear. Heh.)

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&amp;amp;amp;#39;ALL.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

AHAHAH. It's all Dafna(P), really, and kdjfalkdf.

I have had that fic in my head ALL MORNING. All morning. My current detail to obsessively go over and over and over in squealing glee: yes, Tony Fucking Stark will settle for wearing Armani if Strenesse is not available. Because when you're as rich and self-obsessed as Tony Fucking Stark, you don't wear Armani. Armani wears you. Murakami screens your face on one side of a YSL bag and La Lohan's face on the other and puts it in MOCA.

*weeping with love*

Re: TONY STARKS WON THE OSCAR, Y&#39;ALL.

[besyd.livejournal.com]

I STILL WANT THAT T-SHIRT

I tried to catch the scene today but missed it. And then an usher came and sat at the end of my empty row. Hmmm ...

about Tony trying to figure out what the names of those kids in the HumVee with him were because he feels like he ought to apologize to their parents or something

Oh, now you're makin' me sad. Because he totally would want to do that, and he totally wouldn't ask Pepper. Because (on so many levels).