(no subject)

[quigonejinn]

So. Probably one of the most intricately and impressively plotted movies I've seen in a long time. And there's competent villainy! I appreciate competent villiany! And subtle little knif-shanks at the PRC, and references to British imperialism in Burma/Hong Kong.

I appreciate these things.

I appreciate all of these things. Really. Especially the bit with the Joker setting it up so that Harvey could hear Rachel die? I exclaimed "NICE!" in the theater, and I'm pretty sure that's why the people int he row behind me were so eager to get away from me when the movie was done. XD And the bit with the ferries was very, very well-executed. Heads and shoulders and a torso above Batman Begins.

On the other hand:

JESUS FUCK, MOTHERFUCKERS. THE NOLANS PRETTY MUCH FAILED AT EVERYTHING WHERE YOU KNEW THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE TALKING. ANVIL MOVIE IS ANVILLY. ANVIL MOVIE HAS ANVILLY DIALOGUE. ANVIL MOVIE ANVILS SYMBOLS. PS: ANVIL MOVIE HAS ANVILS.

I mean, the actors did the best that they could, but when they did that white knight bit with Dent early in the movie, I couldn't contain myself and just said, "Oh Christ!" out loud. And made groaning noises when they dropped in the bit about the girl's mother.

And, to be honest, not really that impressed with Heath Ledger. He did a good job, a competent job with what could have totally sucked, but not worth that much hype. It's a showy, fundamentally one note character, so all Ledger had to do was hit one note and sustain it. I also don't think the note was fundamentally so difficult that other comptetent actors couldn't have done it, especially with the aid of the pancake makeup meaning that you don't need to worry so much about perfect control of your facial muscles. And I'm really glad he toned done the eye-wiggling as the movie progressed because it annoyed the fuck out of me.

I like the touch about his backstory being uncertain and unclear, but yeah.

No nuance. +8 for competence, but ceiling limit at 75 because ANVIL MOVIE IS ANVILLY!!!!!!!!!

In fact, there's no nuance or depth to any of the characters. When they make the (let us not discuss how TDK totally fails at women characters; J-Fav, you have permanently raised my expectations and doomed me to a life of disappointment). Harvey Dent strains for it, and I may have seen Even J-Gor, who I love. Deeply. And intensely. And is played by Gray Oldman, so I strained hard to find some, but no. None.

So yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is that my fave movie of all time would result if somebody hired J-Fav to do all the characters and the dialogue and the casting and working with the actors and hired the Nolans to do the action and the villain and plotty sequences. J-Fav would yell at the Nolans to use real characters and would let his talented actors off the chain to do their jobs; the Nolans would write bitchin' action sequences and point out when J-Fav's script and timeline made no fucking sense.

Also: I bet the code for Batman's car is kissing cousins with what Tony has in Jarvis -- tell me that I wasn't the only one laughing at how Bruce's car has "loiter" and "intimidate" the way that other cars have reverse and drive.

Comments

[karabou.livejournal.com]

Who the fuck is J-Fav? o___O

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Jon Favreau. XD He more or less wrote, directed, and cast Iron Man. Also, acted in it. XD

[karabou.livejournal.com]

OHhhh LOL. I was far too impressed with the prosthetics on Two-Face (villain of my heart!) to ever dislike TDK. I literally squealed out loud when they revealed his face. Also, nurse!Joker? SO MUCH LULZ.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

*dies* SO MUCH ANVIL. SO MUCH ANVIL.

Yeah, Two-Face is the villian of my heart tooooooo. And I was really, really, really impressed when they brought the IAD stuff back in for him to be Two Face.

[karabou.livejournal.com]

I loved this movie, but. You know what bothered me? What REALLY bothered me? That cell phone privacy bullshit! STFU Morgan Freeman, Batman's trying to track an insane killer and you're going to shove ridiculous current politics down my throat? I seriously kind of wanted to puke during that part.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Ahah. I wanted to puke during that part, too, but mostly from how flashy and unstable the whoel thing was. XD

Though I didn't read it to be current politics or whatever. The idea struck me as really cool, and I'm glad that Fox got a little bit of characterization as a practical man who acts as the limit on Bruce. Because Alfred sure as hell isn't going to.

(Also, even though the movie worked VERY HARD to pretend she didn't exist: how cool would it be if that's how Oracle's camera system got re-worked for the Batman franchise?)

[karabou.livejournal.com]

It just felt like they were preaching about that whole phone privacy crap that's been going on, and I think that, for current politics, if they want to monitor phones to help catch bad guys GO FOR IT, I sure know no one's going to care about what I'm talking about on my phone, and in the movie it's not like Batman was going to use it for anything untoward, just, you know, CATCHING THE JOKER. So it probably just bugged me because I don't share the same opinion as most seem to about the phone monitoring. For Fox to get characterization over that was just, idk, too little too late? But you're right, he does need someone to try and act as the limit on Bruce, it just felt really preachy to me.

(YES ORACLE PLZ. I keep hoping he's going to take in an orphaned circus preformer... XD)

[th-esaurus.livejournal.com]

Just butting in - the effects on Two-Face were entirely CGI. Not even a hint of prosthetics.

(It's still amazing to me, but some people will probably just go EUGH CGI THAT MAKES IT LESS OF AN ACHIEVEMENT but those people know nothingggggg.)

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Oh shit, you know, that makes sense. I was wondering how they managed to get prosthetics with THAT MUCH depth onto onto Dent's face without making the whole thing hideously bulky. (even though my brain kept screaming: OH CHRIST HE MUST BE THE FASTEST HEALER IN THE WORLD IF HE ISN'T HORRIFYINGLY DEAD OF INFECTION)

[karabou.livejournal.com]

THEY WERE? LOL I don't know, somehow that impresses me even more. They didn't feel computer-y to me at all.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

oh my dear, yes. with the anvils. gah. there was like zero characterization in this entire film. I loved the action, the action was win. but gah. Like, there was more characterization in one of IM's little workshop experimentation Tony talking to robots scenes than this entire flick could pull out of its ass.

that really, really annoyed me.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Alfred was the one who, I think, came closest to being a real character? Except that even then, he was more a list of traits in my head (spy, devoted to Bruce, witty, willing to do morally dirty work, etc) than, you know. A fully-fledged person who I felt could walk off the screen and exist in the real world.

OMG 21 HOURS OF PAIN SO EXCITEd.

[prosodi.livejournal.com]

Aaron Eckhart seriously does not get enough love in the press for the part he did. Because, I mean. SERIOUSLY.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Man, yeah, one of the few moments in the movie when I actually believed? When he's in that empty place and still a good guy, but flips the fuck out? That was good. That was really good.

[jamaillith.livejournal.com]

So you got the point about Batman being A DARK KNIGHT? And how the KNIGHT is DARKEST just before the dawn? And did I mention Batman being a KNIGHT? Who is DARK?

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

BY THE WAY, I HAVE A COIN

IT HAS TWO SIDES

[jamaillith.livejournal.com]

ONE SIDE IS LIGHT

ONE SIDE IS DARK

CAN YOU SEE WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THIS

[nolivingman.livejournal.com]

You are correct in every way, and yet they totally got me by making me love Harvey - which I always had a soft spot for him anyway - and by giving me so much of Jim Gordon. OMG JIM. HEART.

And yeah, I agree about Heath/Joker. He was good, but to me, Joker is SO single-note. It gets tiring watching him after a while.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Man, also, it didn't make it into the post because it was 1AM and I was exhausted: WHAT THE FUCK WITH BARBARA AND GORDON'S FAMILY AND NOT SHOWING EVEN HER FACE OR MENTIONING HER NAME? I understand if they were worried about distracting the hardcore fans or whatever, but they didn't even name the son, really. Couldn't they just have made it little BABS who her dad loves most in the world?

>:0 SIGH.

There better be a reason.

[nolivingman.livejournal.com]

SERIOUSLY, THE BABS THING WAS JUST WRONG WRONG WRONG. Cause they had to have the BOY be the one that Jim loved the most? WTFEVER. And him watching Batman like he wanted to grow up to be Batman? Um, no. BABS IS THE ONE WHO WATCHES AND WANTS TO BE A HERO TOO.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Maybe it's starting my professional career, but the degree to which the writers failed to really think through the women in general and professioanl women, in particular, kinda annoyed me. In fact, the more I think about it, the more it annoys me -- the whole ballet absconding with Bruce? Really? Because from what I understand, your average professional ballerina has competitive instincts and drive and discipline that puts makes your average business school grad to SHAME. Especially if it's the "Russian" ballet troupe.

Also, God, the fact that the biggest issue Rachel has in whether or not to marry Harvey Dent is her still being in love with Bruce Wayne? And not, oh, say, the fact that she's a young female in a really, really demanding, self-selecting career that she'd probably have to give up?

OR THAT THE MAN SHE IS DATING/MARRYING IS HER BOSS?????????????? WHY DOES THAT NEVER, EVER, EVER COME UP IN THE COURSE OF THE MOVIE? JESUS FUCK.

And in conclusion, why is the only thing we see of Babs her head? I mean, for Chrissake, they might as well just have given Mrs. Gordon a wig to hold under her arm. We would have had the same effect, and I wouldn't be quite so irritated.

[nolivingman.livejournal.com]

Well and remember when Rachel was interrogating Mob-Guy and she had to come out of the box so that Harvey and Jim could suggest RICO to her? Like she wouldn't have thought of that herself? WTF.

And yeah, the ballet. I mean, I had figured he had just bought out the house for several days, but still, it boggles the mind.

Now I'm getting annoyed with the whole thing. Stupid movie.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

GOD. YOU ARE RIGHT. I TOTALLY EFFING FORGOT ABOUT THAT. And Jesus Christ, that makes no sense. If she was going to be his second chair on a major mob case (!*@)(!*#@# of course she'd know about RICO. I know about RICO. I. What.

RAGE.

Re: the ballet. But he can't have done that, can he? Wouldn't that mean that he bought out every single ticket? Unless Harvey and Rachel were planning to buy walkup tickets.

[karabou.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I fail as a Batman fan because I didn't even THINK of this stuff. LOL I hate this movie so much now, you're right. WHY WAS IT A LITTLE BOY.

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

BAAAABS. That would have been so cool if she'd seen that. But no, she's tucked safely under mama's armpit because WOMEN CAN'T HANDLE SUPERHEROS. DADDY LOVES HER BROTHER BEST.

The only way I forgive them is if Babs turns out to be Gordon's niece, not daughter.

[nextian.livejournal.com]

BASICALLY nolan and the batverse in general have this beautiful, stupid-ass belief that an incredibly shallow investigation of dualism is ANY REPLACEMENT for a real philosophical presentation. GUESS WHAT, once you've said "dark" and "light" and "TWO FACES TO THE COIN" about FIVE THOUSAND TIMES, you've said everything there is to say about "sometimes people are evil and good AT THE SAME TIME."

Not that I overanalyze my comic book movies!

I literally started choking on my popcorn in the mancrush Russian ballerina dumbass scene. It was just so perfect. It was like they were reading off the cuecards for a PSA.

[notexotic.livejournal.com]

RDJ: "Fuck DC Comics." (http://gawker.com/5037992/robert-downey-jr-fuck-dc-comics)

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

I cannot lie. That only made me love him more.

[notexotic.livejournal.com]

*smooches him* Oh, RDJ. Never change, bb.

[wyntereyez.livejournal.com]

I loved TDK. I've seen it more than once, and enoyed it each time. Heath Ledger's Joker was chilling, the action sequences were awesome, and Harvey Dent/Two Face is now my favorite villain.

That being said, I agree with you completely. The characters were indeed one-dimensional, and the dialogue pretty much spelled everything out for you. And I got the whole 'white knight/dark knight' thing the first time; did they really need to spell it out? Repeatedly? Plus, I agree with your assessment of Heath Ledger. Yeah, his performance was good. It was even a little scary. But... it was indeed a 'one note' character that any good actor could have pulled off. Though I am glad that at least Heath's final performance is so well received. I just wish it didn't overshadow other deserving actors/characters, like Aaron Eckhart's Harvey, who was my favorite character of the entire movie.

And I don't see what the deal was with Gordon's son, either. I don't remember him being important - or even existing - in the Batman universe, after all. And his wife is named Barbara... if the daughter fits canon and is also named Barbara, then their family consists of two Barbaras, a James/Jim, and a Jimmy. Wow, whatever would they name a third child if they had one?

So, yeah... awesome movie on some levels, not so much on others. I prefer Iron Man.