Forgive me if I repeat what you've discussed to the 9329842th degree elsewhere, but -- it's interesting, actually, trying to parse out how much real independence Qui-Gon let Obi-Wan have.
On the one hand, he seems to have the boy on a longer leash than Obi-Wan had Anakin. There are real theological divisions between them -- that scene at the beginning, right, where Obi-Wan says that immortal line about a bad feeling, and Qui-Gon is like -_- *gives stock answer* and Obi-Wan teases him a little bit about how unorthodox he is? I read that scene as Obi-Wan really agreeing with Yoda et al, Qui-Gon still trying to fight the good fight, and both of them knowing the difference and being reasonably willing to deal with the consequences.
But then you have that scene where Qui-Gon does the Jedi master equivalent of bitch-slapping Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan is like "WHY CAN'T YOU SEE HOW DANGEROUS THE BRAT IS???" In other words, the first time that Obi-Wan really stands up to him about something new and something that matters. And the stuff with Qui-Gon on the balcony, where Qui-Gon is talking about how much Obi-Wan still has to learn. And the "take one for the team, oh wait, I've already been thrown under the train" feel of Obi-Wan steps forward and says that he's ready to be a Knight.
In those scenes, you don't get the sense of Qui-Gon really respecting Obi-Wan as Obi-Wan. Which might be different from whether or not Qui-Gon really respects independent thought, but still.
It's interesting stuff given Qui-Gon's own maverick-ness with regards to the Council.
More relevant to the point at hand, though, it means that I'm torn as to how much real independence/thinking Qui-Gon allowed Obi-Wan to have. Maybe it's still more than what Obi-Wan let Anakin have -- and I totally agree that Anakin would've turned out better if he'd been allowed to be hoisted on his own petard a few times -- but would Qui-Gon have let Anakin do that? Would he have let Anakin really think for himself, meaningful way?
Then again, I question whether Anakin is capable of thinking in the first place. XD You know me. I don't hate the boy, but Good God, Hayden doesn't exactly work at making Anakin overflow with teh brane.
eeee, jax! but i will be away for a bit if you respond :(
On the one hand, he seems to have the boy on a longer leash than Obi-Wan had Anakin. There are real theological divisions between them -- that scene at the beginning, right, where Obi-Wan says that immortal line about a bad feeling, and Qui-Gon is like -_- *gives stock answer* and Obi-Wan teases him a little bit about how unorthodox he is? I read that scene as Obi-Wan really agreeing with Yoda et al, Qui-Gon still trying to fight the good fight, and both of them knowing the difference and being reasonably willing to deal with the consequences.
But then you have that scene where Qui-Gon does the Jedi master equivalent of bitch-slapping Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan is like "WHY CAN'T YOU SEE HOW DANGEROUS THE BRAT IS???" In other words, the first time that Obi-Wan really stands up to him about something new and something that matters. And the stuff with Qui-Gon on the balcony, where Qui-Gon is talking about how much Obi-Wan still has to learn. And the "take one for the team, oh wait, I've already been thrown under the train" feel of Obi-Wan steps forward and says that he's ready to be a Knight.
In those scenes, you don't get the sense of Qui-Gon really respecting Obi-Wan as Obi-Wan. Which might be different from whether or not Qui-Gon really respects independent thought, but still.
It's interesting stuff given Qui-Gon's own maverick-ness with regards to the Council.
More relevant to the point at hand, though, it means that I'm torn as to how much real independence/thinking Qui-Gon allowed Obi-Wan to have. Maybe it's still more than what Obi-Wan let Anakin have -- and I totally agree that Anakin would've turned out better if he'd been allowed to be hoisted on his own petard a few times -- but would Qui-Gon have let Anakin do that? Would he have let Anakin really think for himself, meaningful way?
Then again, I question whether Anakin is capable of thinking in the first place. XD You know me. I don't hate the boy, but Good God, Hayden doesn't exactly work at making Anakin overflow with teh brane.